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    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    Posted By: VelodromeRatThis is the lamest thread ever. The real followers are some of you guys. Following one idiot for another with ignorance bliss. I know who some of you SDfixed guys are. Posting your fake ass opinions. I have seen some of your bikes and they are not something I would want to ride around in. I race locally in San Diego on Tuesdays and I know for a fact there are many Leader bikes being raced on the track there. I know there is a team sponsored by Leader too. Plenty of them on the road. Heck the first Mash guys road on Leaders. Bet you guys never ridden one and just hate those other guys on Leader with nicer bikes than yours.

    Who here on this thread actually rides a Leader. I think only LyKqiDhas a 737 road bike.

    Hey Leader dudes rock on! I like what you do for this sport.

    Your question is what I ride. Cervello and Bianchi Pista, heck maybe get a leader later on


    Spot on with your criticism here man. You obviously have not listened to what anyone has said in this thread. The geometry is so fucked you cannot even utilize the whole dropout! I do not care what you or your friends have or have not ridden. So what you ride a Cervello and a Pista. Is that supposed to be some kid of pre-requisite to knowing anything about bicycles at all? I would call a leader a great bike for a beginner who is just getting started racing track, but do not come on here and act like they are some kind of bike that is way under priced and is the greatest thing of all time. Don't just join this forum to voice your shitty unthoughtful "I heard this from someone else" bullshit. A lot of people on this forum are very well versed and have a lot of useful bicycle knowledge. Keep it real on your pista/cervello combo of knowledge beyond anyones realm of understanding.
  1.  
    I read every word written and that is why I joined this forum. Post some facts man. Well versed in what? What type of ride you will do tonight.

    Have a happy 4th
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    I am gonna do the type of ride that involves me drinking a lot of beer.
  2.  
    Posted By: VelodromeRatThis is the lamest thread ever. The real followers are some of you guys. Following one idiot for another with ignorance bliss. I know who some of you SDfixed guys are. Posting your fake ass opinions. I have seen some of your bikes and they are not something I would want to ride around in. I race locally in San Diego on Tuesdays and I know for a fact there are many Leader bikes being raced on the track there. I know there is a team sponsored by Leader too. Plenty of them on the road. Heck the first Mash guys road on Leaders. Bet you guys never ridden one and just hate those other guys on Leader with nicer bikes than yours.

    Who here on this thread actually rides a Leader. I think only LyKqiDhas a 737 road bike.

    Hey Leader dudes rock on! I like what you do for this sport.

    Your question is what I ride. Cervello and Bianchi Pista, heck maybe get a leader later on


    Like I said earlier I've ridden one. They're cheap frames man. Plain and simple. Nothing you want to believe is going to change that.
    I'm not saying you don't absolutely have the right to ride a cheap frame and be happy with it. Hell you've got a Pista, you know the drill. Just saying they're not really well made and since they seem to be designed for track use that just seems kinda silly.
    Leader has a new "trick frame" out and I'm quite sure that thing will work just fine for doing keo's on your local basketball court, but if you wanna race you should maybe look at something a tad nicer.

    Anyways, welcome to the forums. I'm sure you'll be fun for about a week :)
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009 edited
     
    Not sure who you are VelodromeRat but feel free to talk to me at Sunday Funday, and discuss why someone who used to work for Haro Bikes DESIGN Department might have an opinion about a bike's geometry and why it might be shit.

    You saying the some of the MASH guys rode Leaders just underlines Kareem's choice of bike, and just proves that those with shitty setups are indeed Followers.

    If there are people who are using a Leader track bike on the track that's fine with me. I'm not sure if they might be compromising with their gearing or chainstay length, but hey if it works for them it's cool, although I think if the wheel is hitting the seat tube and the axle isn't slammed in the dropout slot, then some "designer" didn't do their homework, and production signed off on it too. Don't know that I would buy a product from a company with such a "good enough" attitude.

    At least the Pista has decent proven track geometry, and is not some slack-angled fixed gear road bike like so many of the other entry-level completes.

    The only bike that would be better than my KHS Aerotrack for ME would be one that I design and build for myself, taking my fit and personal preference for ridiculously short chainstays into consideration.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    Posted By: SkidMarkAt least the Pista has decent proven track geometry, and is not some slack-angled fixed gear road bike like so many of the other entry-level completes.
    ...not anymore. this year the pistas have a slacker headtube angle. it's sad.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    That is a shame, that and the tarck bars. And how the fuck is that bike worth $819?
    • CommentAuthorcloud
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    ^because it says bianchi, my only explanation.
  3.  
    I only drive over to San Diego on Tuesdays. PM me and tell me how to find you. If you do indeed race at the track SkidMark, then you probobly already got your ass kicked by someone on a Leader. Some of those guys riding for big city team ride very fast and already won many events. I saw a couble leader's there on the track with expensive custom paint jobs too. There is this guy riding on one with the Union Jack painted on it.

    Again I know what I see and if you actually work for Haro more power too you. But I disagree with you about the geometry. The angles and top tube on the Leader are about the same as my pista.

    Yes I am going to see what Leader does with those new steel bikes. I am a steel guy and that is the main reason I am not riding a Leader on the track.

    Again only post facts and no more inuendo heresay jacked up opinions.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    the geometry is fact. i've seen many people riding a 23c tire with the axle in the back of the dropout... and the tire is nearly touching the seattube. it's a pretty well known fact that leaders do this.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    I don't race and I never claimed that I race.

    I worked for Haro Bikes back in 1990 or so, when Bob Haro still owned the company. I redesigned the Extreme to accept front suspension, and designed the Extreme AL from scratch. I also designed their first 24" cruiser. The drawings I did were used by Linn Kastan to create prototypes for Interbike, and for overseas production. I still have many of the blueprints.

    I said nothing about the the ht/st angles or the top tube length. My beef is that when you design a rear triangle the rear tire should be about 1mm off the seat tube or the chainstay bridge with the wheel all the way forward in the dropouts. It's something I took into consideration on the Haro 24" and it is bike design 101.

    Companies like Vanilla Bicycles take chainstay length and dropout slot travel into consideration to the point that they calculate how long the chainstay needs to be to use a specific chainwheel/cog combination and have it fall in the middle of the dropout slot. And yes that means that even the chain length is being taken into consideration.

    Bicycle frame geometry is a big can of worms to open, and assure you I think about EVERY aspect of it.

    I know this has turned into a bit of a penis swordfight, but if you want to get ahold of me my email is choppermark(at)hotmail(dot)com.
  4.  
    Some years ago my dad picked up for me an old school Haro made in 79. I loved that bike.

    Anyway. I did some checking and only one frame from last year had that dropout issue. No other Leader frame has that problem from what I can tell. Anyway I am sure Leader is not as large as Haro today. I do agree they should explain why they had that problem on that older model.

    Now it is time for me to go out and do some afternoon riding. Super nice summer day today.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    there are at least two in vegas right now that are 09s and have the same problem... how did you "check"?
  5.  
    I am no expert, so don't hate if I say somethin dumb.

    Is there a difference in T6061 aluminum (quality)? how can you tell, other than by assumptions due to the price difference? my 720TR frame (which claims it is double butted T6061 Al on the drive side chain stay) at less than 4 pounds is light enough for my needs and seems sturdy enough after 750+ miles of testing (no cracks or creaks). Granted I don't really abuse it like most fixed gear enthusiast do. the two tricks i do are track stands at short stop lights and backwards circles. no curb jumping, no wheelies, no pot holes, no skids (got brakes) and it seems to work just as good as my 80's steel frame bike that I sold (only it's a bit lighter).

    I am not a fixie "free styler", and I'm not a track racer by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just a commuter

    I don't understand what the big deal is with the seat tube clearance / crap geometry. Just add another link in the chain, there is plenty of room (at least on the '08 720TR). Yeah it's stupid that you can't put a 700 wheel all the in, but honestly, how gives? just move your wheel out a qtr of an inch and ride on.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    you shouldn't have to compromise anything on your bike to adapt to the frame. the frame should be designed that when in the back of the dropout, the gap between the frame and the tire should be around 1mm or so like skidmark said. the problem is that in the middle of the dropout, the wheel still touches with a standard 23c tire. that means you are limited to certain gear ratios that will allow a certain chain length. not to mention tire sizes.
  6.  
    Again, I'm not denying it's a stupid design. I'm saying I don't care. If it's super cheap, and that's the worst thing you can say about it (or that's the thing people seem to focus on most), I will happily adapt the rest of my bike to make it work for the cheap ass frame. btw I've used three gear ratios thus far and they've all worked fine.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    Ok, now we have pretty much summed it up. Its a alright frame FOR THE PRICE. You get what you pay for, theres nothing wrong with that, just call it what it is... a budget aero tubed frame aimed at the "fixie" trend.
    • CommentAuthorAlM
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    I fucking hate leader, people always make fun of me by asking if my bike is a leader.


    It's a rush hour pro, BITCH.
  7.  
    Crank Pedlar are you sure you ride a 720TR and not the 721TR?

    Leader dudes, rock on! I like your bikes. I may get your new 722TS. But one BF favor, Fix your web site. So boring.
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: the rabbiyou shouldn't have to compromise anything on your bike to adapt to the frame. the frame should be designed that when in the back of the dropout, the gap between the frame and the tire should be around 1mm or so like skidmark said. the problem is that in the middle of the dropout, the wheel still touches with a standard 23c tire. that means you are limited to certain gear ratios that will allow a certain chain length. not to mention tire sizes.

    The issue you are addressing was a design fault in the 08 model. People who have recently bought their frames from leader dont compromise anything. I have not seen any 09's with the clearance issue.
 
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