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  1.  
    So i decided after a few years of riding fixed, I'm going to make life a little easier on myself and add some brakes and a ss/freewheel to my Surly. I bought Ritchey pro evo curve bars, Sram levers and hoods, and Tektro brakes. To top it all off i think Im going to have to build a new wheels too!! The Surly hubs that came with the bike are fixed/fixed. Im interested in surly fixed/free hubs but when i look into the freewheel options i don't see too many. Right now i have a phil wood cog and the cogs I've seen for the freewheel aren't really the quality I'm looking for. I'm looking for advice and suggestions.
    • CommentAuthorveggie
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012
     
    You can put a freewheel on a fixed only hub just fine.
  2.  
    My LBS told me it might not have the proper threading and it could possibly come off.When i looked into fixed free hubs it looks as if there is a second group of threads on the free side. I bought a Shimano freewheel for about $19 but when i took it out of the package it looked pretty crappy compared to my Phil Wood cog. So if I can safely install a freewheel over the fixed side threading what is a good freewheel to get?
    • CommentAuthoradrian13346
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012 edited
     
    Your lbs is wrong you can put a freewheel on the fixed side, and it is almost impossible to remove a freewheel without the tool.

    Posted By: PandaInTheMistWhen i looked into fixed free hubs it looks as if there is a second group of threads on the free side.

    You might be getting fixed and free mixed up. I made this to clarify. If you're worried about getting a quality freewheel just get a White industires eno.
    • CommentAuthorveggie
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012
     
    Posted By: PandaInTheMistSo if I can safely install a freewheel over the fixed side threading what is a good freewheel to get?


    Yes, you can install it just fine. And I personally wouldn't worry about the fw. Just run the cheap shimano one till it breaks and then get another.
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: PandaInTheMistWhen i looked into fixed free hubs it looks as if there is a second group of threads on the free side.

    It's actually the other way around. The threading for both fixed cogs and freewheels is righty-tighty; pedaling forward tightens the cog/set onto the hub. The differences in the threadings only come into play when you reverse-pedal (or skid on a fixed, since the freewheel mech won't let you skid, really).

    Normal freewheel hubs have a single set of righty-tighty threads; the freewheel (1 to 8 cogs) threads onto the threads. It's held on by friction, and the fact that the only time you reverse-pedal, the ratcheting mechanism in the freewheel comes into play. The freewheel...freewheels, without the entire thing unscrewing from the hub.

    With a fixed-gear, there is no freewheel mechanism; it's just a cog screwed onto the hub body. Whatever direction the cranks/pedals go, the cog/hub go the same way. If you put enough torque on the cog when reverse-pedaling, you might unscrew the cog from the hub. In practice, this doesn't happen, because forward-pedaling torques the cog down pretty hard; you're unlikely to pedal backwards hard enough or long enough to break the seal.

    But it is possible, at least in theory. So track hubs have a second threaded section, slightly smaller diameter and reverse/lefty-tighty threaded. You first thread on the track cog, and then thread on a reverse-threaded track lockring to keep the cog in place. That way, even if the cog comes loose and starts to thread off, it hits the lockring which keeps it in place.

    Track racers frequently ditch the lockring. For their purposes, they often consider it to be extra weight. Since they're traveling in one direction only, in a controlled environment, they're operating at minimal risk. But if you're riding FG on the street, where skid-stops and whatnot are common practices, a lockring is probably a good idea.

    Some fixed hubs have fixed threading on only one side. Some have fixed threading on both sides, so you can thread different-sized cogs on each side and get a gear change by flipping the wheel. Some have fixed on one side and freewheel on the other. This is common with a lot of older hubs on what the English called "path racers"; you'd ride your bike to the race with the freewheel, get to the grass/dirt track, flip it to the fixed side, ride the race, flip the wheel back to freewheel and ride home again. In the BMX world, you find free/free hubs, where people run different-sized single speed freewheels for extra gearing options.

    Hubs threaded on both sides are commonly referred to as "flip-flops".

    As veg says, you can thread a freewheel onto a fixed-threaded hub; the main threading patterns are identical. The freewheel won't touch the threading for the lockring. Some people get twitchy about the fact that the freewheel is attached to the fixed hub by fewer threads than with a freewheel hub, and I can imagine a shop would take the CYA attitude, just to protect themselves. In practice, I've never heard of a freewheel unscrewing in normal use, unless it was installed incorrectly to begin with. Similarly, you can thread a track cog onto freewheel threads; you just can't put a lockring on it. It probably won't unscrew unless you're a skidmonster, and pretty heavy as well.

    My interpretation of your comment about "second group of threads on the free side" makes me wonder if you haven't had your track cog screwed onto a freewheel hub all along. If that's the case, your task is simple; pull the Phil cog, thread on the Shimano freewheel, adjust the chainlength/chainline and off you go.

    It's true that Shimano's freewheels are crappier-looking than Phil track cogs. Freewheels are generally regarded as consumables, like chains or tires: They wear out quickly, you use them until they wear out, then you replace them. The snazziest SS-esque freewheels are made by White Industries in Northern California; they make a range of supertough, pretty single and double-cog freewheels intended to last. They cost plenty, though; about $100 list for the single-gear UNO, about $125 list for the dual-gear DOS or the single-gear Trials freewheels (the trials version has a bigger bearing than the UNO). If you shop around, you'll find that UNOs come up on eBay pretty often.

    EDIT: See, this is the problem with detailed answers. Other people sneak in and give the quickie answer while you're writing yours, and then you look like an idiot.

    adrian and veg are both right. I'm right, too.
  3.  
    Posted By: eaglerock
    EDIT: See, this is the problem with detailed answers. Other people sneak in and give the quickie answer while you're writing yours, and then you look like an idiot.


    Thats why I refresh the page in another tab when typing up answers.
  4.  
    Thank you Veggie, thank you adrian, and thank you eaglerock. I feel like you guys just handed me a couple hundred bucks, i was convinced i needed new wheels.
  5.  
    One more thing, on the outside of the freewheel do i have to put any type of lockring? It looks like there is a short set of threads.
  6.  
    Posted By: PandaInTheMistOne more thing, on the outside of the freewheel do i have to put any type of lockring? It looks like there is a short set of threads.


    nope
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: NightStalker
    Posted By: PandaInTheMistOne more thing, on the outside of the freewheel do i have to put any type of lockring? It looks like there is a short set of threads.

    nope

    As adrian's picture shows, the "short set of threads" you're talking about is reverse-threaded for a lockring. That threaded side, with two sets of threads going opposite directions, is intended for a fixed-gear cog plus a lockring, not for a freewheel. That doesn't mean you can't thread a freewheel onto the larger set of threads. The freewheel will thread onto the outer/larger/righty-tighty threads, where the fixed cog threaded, and will cover the smaller/lefty-tighty lockring threads. You wouldn't be able to thread a lockring on anyway.

    You've already got the Shimano. Thread it on, get the chain on, and get riding. Lube the hub threads with grease first; even better, use Teflon plumber's tape so you can get the freewheel off again.
  7.  
    Thanks again.
  8.  
    Your shimano freewheel will do the job. I have a garbage $7 freewheel Ive been riding for a year in all conditions almost every day and the freewheel I know it sucks but it works the way it should work. One day Ill splurge on a White Industries Freewheel.
  9.  
    Yeah i threw it on. I almost forgot how fun it is to stand on the pedals and coast! Went for a hill climb today and the descent was amazing. I still love the fixed gear but I'll admit, I'm saving money for a proper road bike.
    • CommentAuthorCeya
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2012 edited
     
    Eaglerock: Track racers frequently ditch the lockring. For their purposes, they often consider it to be extra weight. Since they're traveling in one direction only, in a controlled environment, they're operating at minimal risk. But if you're riding FG on the street, where skid-stops and whatnot are common practices, a lockring is probably a good idea.

    Its ditch not just for weight but also easy to change cogs for different events and not coming loose during event and causing a accident.

    If on the street YOU NEED one, period.


    S/F,
    CEYA!
    • CommentAuthorCanadaSteep
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2012 edited
     
    I have the 18T White industries trials freewheel. If you scout around (bikeman.com) I think it's either $80 or $90.
    For the $10 over a regular WI, for a more industrial item, and if I ever converted my MTB into a SS...I opted for the Trials version.

    The upsides are: it's green (kidding), I think it has hardened teeth/casing vs. the "regular" white industries freewheels, and I think it's good for both
    1/8th and 9/16 (edit: 3/32) chains. If you wear out the outer casing/teeth, you can get a replacement.

    Downside to 18, is that you have to run something like 47T or above upfront.
    I'm on 47/18 and it's easy enough, albeit a little too easy.
    For getting around town, it does the job.
    It's like a big, fast BMX.

    >>Made an edit, 1/8 and 3/32 chains - that's what it says on other sites, but not on WI's site...but it is a bit beefier, more pawls/engagement.
  10.  
    ^I have a white ind. dos, in 3/32. I think with the trials one they have changed the number of engagement points of the freewheel mechanism. I don't know if it's increased or decreased.
    The higher total number of teeth means a longer lasting drivechain. More teeth engaged means stress is distributed among a greater number of points.
    Also, I have never seen a bike with 9/16 chain.
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2012 edited
     
    For the freewheel-interested: I have a WI 18T freewheel that's going to be available soon, as soon as I drag the wheel down to San Jose to have the Phil Wood guys take the sucker off one of my Phil wheels (a regular BMX extractor won't fit over a Phil axle. Beware, SS guys; if you're going to buy Phil, buy the BMX versions). I know I've said this for a couple of years now. But I just replaced the chain on my Raleigh 3-5000 miles too late, my cruising cogs are shot, and so I have to take another wheel down for 7-speed axle ends before I replace the freewheel. So, all my Phil projects are going with me.

    Anybody wants it, PM me and tell me what works for you.
    • CommentAuthorShaku
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2012
     
    i have one on my all-city, and it is fucking epic!! people know you're coming especially when you coast and spin backwards.
  11.  
    ^ Awesome for bike paths on sundays: MOVE, BIPED.
 
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