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    • CommentAuthorroot
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2012 edited
     
    What up good people, I hope y'all could help me out. I bought a Trek 1.2 (this one specifically http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2010/archive/12 ) not too long ago from a fellow rider. When I bought it I was told the thing had been wrecked and pieced back together with a new wheelset and a used madone fork along with some other drivetrain parts that work excellent.

    I figured the Madone is a much better ride so I didn't think much about the used fork being an issue (considering it more an upgrade than the stock fork) till I began to read about carbon fork issues online (catastrophic failure to be exact) and while I do believe carbon is fine for cycling...the fact that this fork was purchased used from a bike swap leaves me feeling a little uneasy. I was told by the bike shop that cut the steerer that it was fine to use...but for how long? I'm also not a weight weenie and prefer durability to fragility.

    I'm currently riding my Motobecane Mirage sport from 09 instead of this Trek because I'm a sizeable dude (6'3 between 210-220) and I carry a pack with me on my commute (making the overall weight 230lbs+) and it's steel fork gives me piece of mind when it comes to durability vs the carbon on the Trek. My plan was to sell the Trek to fund another bike with a steel fork but then I thought if I could just replace this fork with a steel fork I'll save myself the time and trouble of selling my bike and finding/paying for another.

    I saw these Pake forks online and they don't look too shabby:
    http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-15598-pake-straight-track-fork.aspx?variantID=7742

    but now the question is, can I replace a carbon fork with a steel fork considering the headset on the Trek is integrated? (I've yet to find an integrated steel fork and doubt they exist) Should I grab a new integrated carbon fork? if so will this handle my weight ok? Or am I better off selling this frame and buying an all steel frame?

    Also: I'd swap out the parts and put it on the Moto but the crank is stripped on the Moto leaving me with a pretty piss poor drivetrain, so I've relegated it as my beater/commuter for now.

    Can a brotha help me out?
  1.  
    I had to witness the failure of one of these ultralight 90ies alloy forks from C'dale right in front of me. The whole thing happened on a descent in Spain and looked blatantly fatal (no helmet, but our friend survived 7d in hospital and learned his lesson the hard way).

    Back to your question:

    Carbon technology seems to have improved, but unfortunately I lack experien$e here. A threadless steel fork should be no problem, but I cannot tell if you really need one. In case you do, feel free to check e.g: WR-932IC, WR-918F and WR-911 from http://www.wuler.com.tw (warning: ugly macromedia page from tw).
    • CommentAuthorsibkis
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2012
     
    I don't think that a Pake track fork will have the proper rake for a road bike frame. You might be better off with a Steel road bike fork from BikeNashbar. It has a chromed finish and has straight blades like the OEM carbon fork on the Trek. It also has two five star ratings from two customer reviews and It is only 69.99 plus shipping.

    http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/SearchDisplay?storeId=10053&catalogId=10052&langId=-1&cn1=&gast=steel+fork&URL=CatalogSearchResultView&searchTerm=steel+fork

    Here is the info from the following link:

    Strong & simple, just like the good ol' days. This steel road bike fork is the perfect addition to your around-town single speed, or your commuter bike. It doesn't need any pampering, primping or TLC...just throw it on your ride and hit the streets.

    - Chro-moly steel dampens road vibrations to save your forearms and hands
    - Retro style with a chrome-plated finish and sculpted crown
    - Straight blade legs for aerodynamics
    - Single-bolt brake mount for a short-reach road brake caliper
    - Fits most road or track bike frames with 1 1/8" head tubes

    WEIGHT: 1036g (300mm uncut steerer)
    MATERIAL: Chromoly
    STEERER DIAMETER: 1 1/8" Threadless
    STEERER MATERIAL: Chromoly
    RAKE: 40mm
    BRAKE MOUNT: Single-bolt
    WHEEL SIZE: 700c
    ______________________________________________________________

    Here are the two reviews:

    1) PROS: CONS: None
    Comfortable
    Handles Well
    Responsive

    Comments about Nashbar Steel Road Bike Fork:

    I put this Nashbar Steel fork on my 2012 Bianchi Imola (steel framed), replacing the CF fork that the bike came with. The Nashbar steel fork is a vast improvement...both in handling and in ride-feel. I was originally concerned that there might be an issue with handling since the Nashbar fork has a rake of only 40mm...but there seems to be no incompatibility. Now I can take high speed turns with total confidence due to the fact the steel fork holds the road much better. Secondly, the whole bike feel is vastly improved. Whereas before the ride was 'dead'. this fork has a much better feedback...absorbing the big bumps but still allowing for some feedback even on relatively smooth roads. The bike finally feels like a 'steel' bike should...giving that old-style massage-like vibration which makes bike-riding the best form of therapy.

    Its all relatively simple to install. I did have to go to the bike shop to have them remove the race-crown from the old fork and put it on the new fork. The race-crown is the platform where the ball-bearings sit on top of the fork. Aside from that I did the rest of the installation myself using the Park Tool SG-6 saw guide, and the Park Tool TNS-4 Starnut setter.

    The fork comes with a star-nut.
    __________________________________

    2) PROS: CONS: None
    Comfortable
    Fits 700 x 28 tires
    Handles Well

    Comments about Nashbar Steel Road Bike Fork:

    I bought this fork due to my growing concern that the crack in my carbon fork might have been growing. Even though this fork in a pound or so heavier than a carbon fork it is still worth buying, being steel, it is very durable, and seems to dampen the road vibrations just as much as my old carbon fork. I fully intend to race on this fork, even though it comes with a small weight penalty, it seems much stiffer in cornering than my old carbon fork, giving me more confidence in taking sharp corners. As an added bonus, you can fit 700 x 28 tires in this fork.
  2.  
    get a surly pacer fork
    • CommentAuthorsibkis
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2012
     
    Here are two more steel forks from Soma:

    http://store.somafab.com/irdcr57fofor.html

    IRD 57mm Long-Reach Brake Unicrown Forks - 119.99

    __________________________________

    http://store.somafab.com/so1crlufo43.html

    Soma CrMo49 Lugged Road Fork - 139.99

    Matching fork for Smoothie Road Race frame: - Tange Infinity CrMo steel tubes
    - 1-1/8" or 1" steerer
    - Eyelets for fenders
    - Lugged crown
    - Works with standard 39-49mm reach road brakes
    - Pearl White and Black
    • CommentAuthorroot
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2012
     
    thanks for all the suggestions everybody (I've asked this same question around on a few forums and this was by far the most helpful) but after a little research, I think I'm going to ditch the Trek frame + fork + calipers and move all my parts to a Pake C'mute frame coupled with a Surley fork. All steel, fatter tires, and the versatility of the frame are too hard a sell for me to ignore (besides, the frame and fork can be had for under $400). I figure I could recoup about half the costs selling my frame after all is said and done. I'd love to go with a Surley Cross Check (I'm a sucker for a flat top tube vs the slight angle in the Pake) but the extra cost could be put towards better brifters than the Sora's I have now.

    Thanks again for all the help everybody.
    • CommentAuthorsibkis
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2012 edited
     
    The Pake C’Mute is a great frame choice and can be purchased on-line at the Soma Store site. I would strongly recommend the matching Pake C’Mute Fork with comes in the same Pave-Mint or Dark Grey frame colors and has Rack mounts, fender mounts and low rider pannier mounts. You will not be able to transfer your brakes from your current Trek as the Pake frame and fork set require Cantilever (with a front cable hanger) or linear “V” brakes.
    I would caution you to stay with cantilever brakes as linear brakes were designed for mountain bikes. Linear pull "V" brakes are great on mountain bikes with their proper brake levers. On a drop bar bike they are not as effective as a good quality cantilever brake. They require an adapter ("travel agents") or a special brake lever to get the proper cable pull and have centering problems that a cantilever or dual pivot brakes don’t have. They also have thinner pads that wear out quicker. Mountain bikes also do not reach the same top speeds that a road bike can achieve.

    _________________________________

    http://store.somafab.com/pacfrfoset.html

    Pake C'Mute Frame - 259.99

    Done in Tange's cold-worked butted CrMo. Extra versatile since you can run it geared or SS with the horizontal dropouts. Commute on it. Light touring. Even take it on trails. A killer value in a cyclo-cross frame.

    -Butted Tange 4130 CrMo front triangle.
    -Clearance for 35c tires with fenders.
    -Extended headtube
    -Decals: Removable w/o stripping clearcoat
    -Horizontal dropouts with derailleur hanger
    -Matching unicrown steel fork w/ rack and fender mounts and low rider pannier mounts;44mm rake (OPTIONAL)
    -Colors: Pave-Mint(being discontinued), Dark Grey

    Numbers:
    27.2mm seatpost
    132.5mm rear hub spacing
    1-1/8" headset size
    68mm BB shell
    28.6mm front derailleur

    More information, photos and geometry at pakebikes.com
    http://www.pakebikes.com/product/F8EF09/C%27Mute+Frame
    Only sold on-line through the Soma site
    ___________________________________________________

    http://store.somafab.com/cmutefork.html

    Pake C'Mute Fork - 100.00

    -Unicrown steel fork.
    -Rack and fender mounts and low rider pannier mounts.
    -Colors: Pave-Mint, Dark Grey
    -44mm rake
    -1-1/8" Steerer
    _________________________________________________________________________________________
    _______________________ Here are some choices for Cantilever brakes ___________________________
    _________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/tektro-cr720-cantilever-brakes.html

    Tektro CR720 Cantilever Brakes – 27.00 per wheels worth
    ___________________________________

    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/grand-cru-cantilever-brakes-843.html

    Grand Cru Cantilever brake set, MK2 – 85.00 for one bikes worth (two pairs). These also come with VO “squeal-free” brake shoes that have a superior brake pad material equal to Kool-Stop “Salmon” shoes and pads.
    ___________________________________

    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/grand-cru-long-arm-cantilever-brakes.html

    Grand Cru Zeste Cantilever Brakeset – 125.00 for one bikes worth (two pairs) These among the most powerful Cantilevers made and also come with the with VO “squeal-free” brake shoes.
    __________________________________

    http://harriscyclery.net/product/origin8-wide-profile-cantilever-brake-classic-style-silver.-fr-set-2753.htm

    Origin8 (made by Tektro) Wide-Profile Cantilever Brake Classic Style Silver. F&R Set – 59.95

    Reminiscent of the classic Mafac Brakes.
    A great alternative to high-priced, boutique canti brakes.
    Complete set, front and rear.
    Great power and mud clearance.
    CNC'ed 7075-T6 Alloy in Silver
    For best results, replace the stock brake shoes the Kool Stop Thinline Smooth Stud Salmon Brake Shoes – 11.95 a pair
    http://harriscyclery.net/product/kool-stop-thinline-smooth-stud-salmon-brake-shoe-480.htm
    ___________________________________

    http://harriscyclery.net/product/shimano-altus-cantilevers-ct-91-1051.htm

    Shimano Altus Cantilevers CT-91 – 14.95 for one wheels worth
    These come with smooth stud molded brake shoes.
    To upgrade the brake shoes, Kool Stop Eagle 2s would be a good choice.
    Kool Stop - Eagle 2 Smooth Stud – 8.95 for a pair
    http://harriscyclery.net/product/kool-stop-eagle-2-smooth-stud-482.htm
    ___________________________________

    My recommendations would be either the Origin8 Silver Wide-Profile Cantilevers with Kool Stop Thinline Shoes
    or the VO Grand Cru Cantilever brake set, MK2
    • CommentAuthorsibkis
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2012 edited
     
    With any of the above Cantilever brakes you will need a front cable stop that mounts on the top headset stack or mounts to the fork – here are some choises:

    http://www.paulcomp.com/fmfront.html

    Funky Monkey Front cable stop – in size 1 1/8 – 49.00
    This includes a cable adjuster and comes in either a silver or black finish.
    ___________________________________

    http://harriscyclery.net/product/tektro-fork-mount-housing-stop-w-adjusting-barrel-f-cantilevers-black-3431.htm

    Fork Mount Housing Stop w/Adjusting Barrel f/Cantilevers BLACK – 10.95

    http://www.bikeman.com/BR7469.html

    Fork Mount Housing Stop w/Adjusting Barrel f/Cantilevers SILVER – 17.99
    ___________________________________

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Tektro-Bike-Alloy-Brake-Cable-Hanger-1-1-8-Silver-/370591004098?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5648f1f5c2#ht_1181wt_125

    New Tektro Bike Alloy Brake Cable Headset Hanger 1-1/8" Silver – 8.99 + 3.12 shipping
    ___________________________________

    http://www.bikeman.com/BR7467.html

    Tektro Front Cable Hangar with Adjusting Barrel 1-1/8 inch Alloy - Black – 9.99

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Tektro-Front-Cable-Hanger-1-1-8-28-8mm-Adjuster-Silver-FREE-Shipping-/160844798727?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257318db07#ht_4781wt_754

    New Tektro Bike Alloy Threaded HeadSet Brake Cable Hanger 1-1/8" Silver (FREE Shipping!!) – 7.25
    Note: this is for a threaded fork steering tube – just file off the inner tab for a non-threaded fork steering tube
    Silver forged Aluminum
    ___________________________________

    http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_175223_-1___

    Nashbar silver Head Tube Cable Hanger for 1 1/8 inch – 1.99
    Note: Doesn't come with a cable adjuster
  3.  
    Put a suspension fork in there and take the load off.They are adjustable
    • CommentAuthorsibkis
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2012
     
    Posted By: kiwiglacierPut a suspension fork in there and take the load off.They are adjustable


    Why would you put a suspension fork on a Pake C'Mote cyclo-cross frame that is being used as a road bike?
    • CommentAuthorM1K3Y
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2012
     
    I wouldnt honestly worry about a used Madone fork these days, carbon and other composite technology has drastically improved in the last 5-10 years. If the bike has been wrecked and the fork replaced more worrisome would be the shape of the frame. From a materials standpoint Aluminum will eventually fail under normal usage circumstances. Basically it fatigues when force is applied to it and eventually it can break. If you take a bar of aluminum and a similiar bar of steel with a 100lb yeild point and begin applying 20 lbs of force, the steel should be there forever, the aluminum will eventually snap (I realize this is a gross oversimplification if any engineers, or metalurgists are viewing and want to comment with said lesson) If during said crash, the aluminum was wrinkled or you have some other type of damage the fork would fail far after the frame. That being said, there are sketchy shops out there that might use a wrecked fork. At the shop I work at (http://bicycleworldofhouston.com/) that would never fly and the other mechanics would ridicule, then push to have anyone who tried to pull a fast one like that on a customer fired.

    If you are worried about it, scout around Fleabay and find a used steel commuting frame, a used crosscheck, soma, all city etc. style frame will run anywhere from 100-300$, and there are always people (shop mechanics are a good place to ask for where to track down a frame like this) looking to fund the next project. Case in point, a coworker of mine currently has an italian Bennoto he is selling or sold for like 200$ just because he wants to do something to his motorcycle.

    Now, to address the Pros/ cons section of some of the forks listed above. There are most definately cons to having a steel fork w an aluminum frame over a carbon fork. Carbon will typically deaden vibration much better than a steel fork. Every fork is going to ride slightly differently. In my oppinion a steel fork such as the one that currently comes on a Giant Defy 5 rides like shit, adds unnecesary weight and to me its a complete no brainer to spend the extra money for the next step up with a carbon fork. Some carbon forks ride harsh, some are more plush. It all depends on carbon layup, modulus, shape etc etc etc. The same is true of a steel fork. I think that sometimes this forum gets too caught up with the "steel is real" sentiment, and lets face it: Steel is a great material for frames/ forks but is not a cookie cutter answer for every cycling situation (For reference both of my commuter bikes are steel) For example my current favorite bike is a converted Dawes that now has Dura Ace 7800 and a modern drivetrain. It has an awesome fork with a ton of rake, but the bike handles like shit. Aka when riding with one of my buddies the other day I had to slow down to under 20 for a lot of turns he could take at the same speed. On the other hand I have a Cannondale CAAD10 with SRAM Force which for this ride probably would have been much more appropriate if not as fun to ride for long stretches... Anywho
    • CommentAuthorroot
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012
     
    whoa...didn't expect more posts after my last. lot of good info there, thanks felissilvestris, M1K3Y and def sibkis.

    I think I'm pretty locked into the Pake frame but I hate unicrown forks (appearance mainly) and it looks like the surly cross fork I want costs about the same, handles the canti's or v-brakes, has rack mounts, same rake (44mm) and it's lugged. Besides, I'm a sucker for off color fork/frame combos so I'm pretty set on this but thanks for the suggestion to keep it all Pake.

    What I'm not set on is the type of brakes I should run (as I've only dealt with calipers). The bike will mostly be for my commute to and from work (bout 10mi each way on pretty smooth cement/asphalt) but I do want to run some fatter tires (700 x 32's) that I could mob around on a few cyclo/mtn trails we have around the area as well...kind of like a do it all'er. I have a Kilo so I doubt I'll ever run the c'mute as a single but I do plan on this being my main geared ride (beside my lock-up beater) and will probably experiment with a few tours and century rides with it as well. Are canti's really that much better than v-brakes?

    I want to use my Sora brifters with the Pake to start off with (possibly moving to 105's after) but I have NO experience with canti/v-brakes and although I'm pretty diligent about researching before purchasing, the info I've found hasn't really been concrete and leaves me with a ton of questions. Does anybody here mind elaborating? ie. Which are compatible with my brifters? Which are best with brifters? What are their specific uses? Which is better suited for the usage I just mentioned? If neither are good to use along with my brifters is there a third option I'm not aware of?

    Thanks again for all the help, posts like sibkis' take time and it's much appreciated
    • CommentAuthorveggie
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012
     
    You can not use brifters with v-brakes without the use of travel agents. Road levers, such as brifters, do not pull enough cable for v-brakes.
    • CommentAuthorsibkis
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012 edited
     
    You can use your brifters with cantilever brakes. Here is some more info that is tandem related but also applies to a loaded touring bike. Please have a look at this link from Rodriguez Tandem custom builder R+E Cycles:

    http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/brakes.html

    Here is a quick summary:

    Linear pull "V" brakes are great on mountain bikes with their proper brake levers. On a drop bar bike they are not as effective as a good quality cantilever brake. They require an adapter "travel agents" or a special brake lever to get the proper cable pull and have centering problems that a cantilever or dual pivot brake doesn't have on a loaded touring bike application. When used on road bikes "V" brakes wear their pads out very quickly and their pads are not as deep as canti or road shoes are. A loaded touring bike lot heavier than a loaded mountain bike and can reach speeds of 40-50 mph on downhills. Linear pull brakes were designed for mountain bikes with half the weight and top speeds that aren't much more than 25 mph.
    • CommentAuthorsibkis
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012 edited
     
    _____________ Here are some choices for Cantilever brakes alone with their pictures __________________

    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/tektro-cr720-cantilever-brakes.html

    Tektro CR720 Cantilever Brakes – 27.00 per wheels worth. "The CR720 brakes are certainly the best deal in canti brakes today. They feature forged aluminum arms, linear spring design, and dual micro tension adjusters, so adjusting and setting them up is particularly easy. Though the look is retro, their geometry makes for a very powerful brake.

    Includes straddle wires, really nice hangers, and all other required hardware. The finish is silver satin. These now come with "road" style brake shoes."



    I strongly consider upgrading these brakes shoes to either VO "squeal-free" Cartridge Road Shoes or Kool-Stop "salmon" Supra 2 Brake Shoes.

    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-squeal-free-brake-shoe-and-pads.html
    http://harriscyclery.net/product/kool-stop-supra-2-brake-shoes-477.htm
    ___________________________________

    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/grand-cru-cantilever-brakes-843.html

    Grand Cru Cantilever brake set, MK2 – 85.00 for one bikes worth (two pairs). These also come with VO “squeal-free” brake shoes that have a superior brake pad material equal to Kool-Stop “Salmon” shoes and pads.


    ___________________________________

    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/grand-cru-long-arm-cantilever-brakes.html

    Grand Cru Zeste Cantilever Brakeset – 125.00 for one bikes worth (two pairs) These among the most powerful Cantilevers made and also come with the with VO “squeal-free” brake shoes.




    _________________________________

    http://harriscyclery.net/product/origin8-wide-profile-cantilever-brake-classic-style-silver.-fr-set-2753.htm

    Origin8 (made by Tektro) Wide-Profile Cantilever Brake Classic Style Silver. F&R Set – 59.95

    Reminiscent of the classic Mafac Brakes.
    A great alternative to high-priced, boutique canti brakes.
    Complete set, front and rear.
    Great power and mud clearance.
    CNC'ed 7075-T6 Alloy in Silver
    For best results, replace the stock brake shoes the Kool Stop Thinline Smooth Stud Salmon Brake Shoes – 11.95 a pair
    http://harriscyclery.net/product/kool-stop-thinline-smooth-stud-salmon-brake-shoe-480.htm


    ___________________________________

    http://harriscyclery.net/product/shimano-altus-cantilevers-ct-91-1051.htm

    Shimano Altus Cantilevers CT-91 – 14.95 for one wheels worth
    These come with smooth stud molded brake shoes.
    To upgrade the brake shoes, Kool Stop Eagle 2s would be a good choice.
    Kool Stop - Eagle 2 Smooth Stud – 8.95 for a pair
    http://harriscyclery.net/product/kool-stop-eagle-2-smooth-stud-482.htm



    _______________________________________________________________________________________
    _______________________________________________________________________________________


    My recommendations based on cost would be either the Origin8 Silver Wide-Profile Cantilevers with Kool Stop Thinline or Eagle 2 Smooth Stud Shoes or the VO Grand Cru Cantilever brake set, MK2

    If you want the best Cantilever brakes then get the Grand Cru Zeste Cantilever Brakeset – 125.00 for one bikes worth
 
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