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    • CommentAuthornharri
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2011
    Im looking to buy a new groupset for my 04' Principia. It has since become my second road bike that I am mainly using to commute to work and wet weather riding. It is running a chorus/record blend (urgrades courtesy of insurance companies...who would have thought) and i dont think I need the keep it at that price range given it's intended use.

    I only have experience with Campag and im open to change. Im looking for a pretty durable group set that will cost me around $600. Im wondering what everyone thinks about what is best within the group and what they would reccomend.

    • CommentAuthorveggie
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2011
    Its all about feel, try out some sram and some shimano to see if you like it better.
    • CommentAuthorayyyyy
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2011
    sram's doubletap system is the crispest, snappiest shifting system i've tried

    it's all opinion though. test ride all three and choose for yourself. sram and shimano have cheaper replaceable parts (chains, cassettes).
    One nice feature of The Apex group is the ability to run up to a 11-32 cassette. We've been selling bikes with the Apex stuff hand over fist because of that.

    105 will be more buttery, I have a 5500 generation group on my bike and it's still working quite well (with regular maintenance of course).

    Campagnolo makes nice stuff, and it works quite well, but I would consider it overpriced.
    • CommentAuthorjleath
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2011
    I would go with Apex because of how the hoods feel. You could probably find a used Rival group in that range, or even do a rival+apex mix. I have used DA, Red, Campy act and choose to run Rival on my bikes currently. You will feel the crisp double tap shifting that "AYYYYY" is talking about mostly with Red due to the shorter throw of the shifter. Nonetheless, all the double tap stuff feels fine. Im not sure if I can endorse the "butteriness" of the new 105 as apposed to Apex, both are very similar... all the shimano vs sram stuff is so similar just because they are both doing the routing is under the tape now - both have about the same amount of friction in the cables, as opposed to DA 7800 which felt really great. I would recommend taking a chance to head down to your LBS, lay your hands on both sets of hoods to see what is more comfortable for your hands, ride around and feel the difference in shifting for yourself.
    • CommentAuthorpolitburo
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2011 edited
    campagnolo is very durable compared to the other two. I dont like the 1down/3up shifting of low end campy these days, but hey, you get what you pay for.

    I hate sram shifting and shimano aesthetics.
    • CommentAuthorveggie
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2011
    Posted By: politburoshimano aesthetics.

    I think the newest shimano looks loads better than previous generations
    Campy is expensive at the time of purchase, but it really holds its resale value and the ergopower shifters can be rebuilt (unlike shimano, and possibly sram?) I consider it the best long-term investment if you don't plan on doing a lot of crashing. Towel it off and oil it after rain rides, and it'll last a hell of a long time.
    • CommentAuthorpolitburo
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2011 edited
    i dont think that the current generation of "escape" or "powershift" or whatever shimano-mimic ergopower shifting mechanism is rebuildable.

    Its true that all the ultra-shift stuff (pre-2011 centaur and higher) is rebuildable, but the 1down/3up QS veloce and lower uses a lot of little crappy plastic pieces. I think once its dead, you just replace it. Makes sense from a marketing/sales standpoint - if you get the good rebuildable stuff, you're paying some serious coin upfront and then paying to rebuild, vs spending less but having to replace.

    I think the best deal out there right now is the 2010 centaur group.
    Interesting, I'm not familiar with the 2011 line - my latest stuff is 2009 Record. Back in my day, the only major difference between Record and lower groups was weight, but it all worked with fairly equal quality. Little plastic bits now? Ugh. #angryoldman
    • CommentAuthorayyyyy
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2011
    i know you can get replacement shifter parts (brake lever blades, pawls and spring kits, etc) for sram shifters from qbp
    • CommentAuthortreehugger
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2011
    I don't really like the double tap system, but out of all of the SRAM stuff, I like the Apex because of its versatility the best.

    But out of them all, my vote would be for the 105. I've built/worked on a lot of the 5700 stuff this year at my shop and I am very impressed.

    I do love Campy though, that's what is on my road bike.
    I use a Campag veloce group on my road bike with Miche wheel set and brake calipers and have can recommend it. Mixing miche and campag parts can work well and will save you +++$$$/£££ or at least here in Europe.

    Have a look at the Miche website, I think you'll be impressed, they're emerging as a good but cheaper alternative to campag here, although as mentioned I don't know about U.S prices and distribution situation.

    I only have experience of Shimano gear for XC use and have never used any Sram so can't compare, to address your original question, but certainly recommend Veloce.
    • CommentAuthorpolitburo
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2011 edited
    We have Miche fixed gear stuff here, but I've never seen their road components here (at least not modern groups). I'd be interested in trying these out.
    Politburo, If you're interested I'd try chase some of their stuff up in the U.S, I don't think you'll be disapointed.

    FYI, I've been told by my LBS mechanic (ex pro rider turned bike shop owner, i.e reliable source for advice/info) that Miche were part of Modolo but started producing more of their own components and over the past couple of years have come into their own challenging Campag on price for high quality components.

    Nharri, I think the 'Primato' group is probably around your price point and suited for your needs, although I do use some of the slightly cheaper 'Performance' range and am very impressed for the price. I don't think they yet produce a shifter so most people match a Campag shifter and mech then go for Miche on every thing else, which works well.

    If you've a few $$$ to throw around their 'supertype' group looks very tempting, although as yet I've not seen any in real life, just in the catalogue. I did check out the 'Race box' hubs and 'Race' wheel set which are very good quality/value.

    On my next build (in progress) I'm planning to use Miche 'Primato' throughout except shifters and front/rear mech which will probably be Veloce again.
    • CommentAuthorper.k
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2011
    I got my 2010 Centaur group from velomine back when they were running a special! Definitely recommended, great stuff, only thing I wish for was a brake quick release for removing tires from the skeleton brakes :)
    • CommentAuthorpolitburo
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2011
    there's a quick release on all ergopower shifters ;)
    From what I know (heard from knowledgeable ppl) is that you can run Campy shifters with a Shimano/Sram cassette via a Shimano/Sram rear derailleur.
    Also, there's this doohicky out there from Jtek called "shiftmate".
    So I'm trying to track down a Chorus rear long cage to run an Apex cassette (to 32). I have the front 10sp Chorus derailleur and a lead on the 10sp shifters so...not a bad option. If anything falls through, will go to an Apex setup.
    • CommentAuthorHaegan
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011 edited
    no you can't (at least not well) the spacing and pull ratio is different. shimano will work with sram and vice versa but campy won't work with anything else.
    • CommentAuthorveggie
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
    Posted By: Haegancampy won't work with anything.

    It will work with itself :D

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