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  1.  
    really want a Panasonic NJS frame (58cm) and found that you can order them brand new in custon colors, logos, etc. through this thing called the "Panasonic Order System." Looks awesome.
    I tried visiting Panasonic Japan's website and emailed their customer service (in japanese...) and

    the catch? one frame costs 1,000 dolares!!!

    Are Panasonics more nostalgic than anything these days (20 years after the US distributor closed and the frames haven't changed), or are they still good on the track and for general road riding?

    does anybody think a brand new panasonic is worth a thousand bucks? I'm undecided.
    (also accepting PM offers of sales if you have one)
  2.  
    I doubt anyone here will tell you yes.
    • CommentAuthorveggie
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2011
     
    ^I'll be the first

    Not worth it, go get a custom frame built for not that much more.
    • CommentAuthorper.k
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2011
     
    It's only worth it if you feel like paying for it.
  3.  
    Holy moly. A grand for a Panasonic? I mean, they're nice frames and all, but for a grand, you can have Niall Gengler build you one to your own body's spec.
  4.  
    well that settles that issue. guess I just needed to hear it from others that that's beyond reasonable.

    also up for consideration are the Bianchi Super Pista, the CInelli MASH, and the Cinelli Vigorelli. opinions?
    • CommentAuthoruhler
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2011
     
    Get it! that would be totally hip! coolest dude in town!

    go for it man!
  5.  
    Posted By: Purple LlamaBianchi Super Pista, the CInelli MASH, and the Cinelli Vigorelli


    All the same made in China frames dude
    • CommentAuthorbdooner1
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2011
     
    If you really want NJS you should at least check out this site
    I have always thought there was better values to be had.The NJS stamp seems to add to the price but not always the quality.
    http://njs-keirin.blogspot.com/
  6.  
    Posted By: bensonisajew
    Posted By: Purple LlamaBianchi Super Pista, the CInelli MASH, and the Cinelli Vigorelli


    All the same made in China frames dude


    Ok, so those frames are not all the same at all. They are all made in China but that does not mean that they will ride the same.

    Right now I am riding a Vivalo, used to be NJS, and it rides really well and is totally beautiful. It has scratches where the chrome shows through, no dents and is one of the best looking frames I have seen in person. In the past I owned a Trek T1 for a year, it was light as hell and really comfortable. It was built in the USA using tubing from China I believe. Currently I have a 2008 Raleigh Rush Hour Pro frame hanging on my wall with a "Made in China" sticker right above the bottom bracket and seat tube weld. I also rode this frame for a year. This frame is not as light as the Trek T1 but it is stiffer and super fast.

    My two "Chinese" frames were totally different experiences as will all of those aluminum frames you listed above will be.

    My point is that they might all be made in China but they are totally not the same frame. Get whatever you want, most people on here will tell you what you have or want is not that cool for whatever list of reasons they have. I have a friend who has had a Mash frame since they first came out, he loves it and rides the hell out of it. Its a beautiful frame, and having ridden it myself, rides very well for its purpose.

    Out of all the bikes I have or do own my Vivalo has been my favorite because it is a perfect combination of looks and function for me, but on a side note I did not pay anything near $1000 for it. If you are going to pay the price of Mash, the Panasonic is not that crazy of a leap in price.
  7.  
    If you're looking to spend a grand on a frame, you really should consider a custom build.
  8.  
    The price of all those frames... from the MASH, to the Pista Concept, have all really shot up in price recently. Paying between 750-1000 for a run-of-the-mill, China made Aluminum track frame is not worth it. Simple as that.

    The Panasonics are not worth it because you're paying more for the NJS certification, yet they are on the low-end of NJS frames. You're paying several hundred extra for custom color and stickers, which what you should be more consider about is custom geometry to actually FIT you properly. You also need to account for the few hundred dollars shipping from Japan.

    If you're going fully custom, I can only suggest Tiemeyer. I ride one personally and it's probably the best frame I've ridden. I would not suggest building a custom Tiemeyer unless you plan to start racing track.

    If you're just wanting a "sweet street fixie"... just try to pick something up 2nd hand. EAI Bareknuckles sell for a good price used.

    I almost forgot... you can get a brand new Cinelli Gazzetta for under 500 bucks from PBK if you use a discount code for 20% off that you find online, and it also have free shipping. I think it's a nice, simple, straightfoward streel track frame.

    http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=J0096
    • CommentAuthoronionskin
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2011
     
    The Panasonics don't carry the cache of some of the other NJS ateliers but are still beautiful frames. But most of them won't sell you a frame especially at that price. Having seen them in person, I can attest to the quality of workmanship and paint. The question is what are you going to use it for? You are going to be limited to 23mm tubulars, very compact track geometry and limited component selection. If you know what you are getting into and have a grand burning a hole in your pocket why not?

    As for custom frames it's that additional incremental cost and long lead times to get one built that is a consideration. That and whether you have a need for or expertise to really make informed decisions regarding a custom build. Many frame builders will exhaust you with a form with upwards of 50 questions regarding every aspect of your riding preferences and body measurements.

    I have always been happy with off-the-rack frames, for 9-bills you can't go wrong with an EAI Godzilla (less if you know how to ask nicely), they are very stable (and legal) for use on the street.
    • CommentAuthorper.k
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2011 edited
     
    100% truth/agreed
    "If you're going fully custom, I can only suggest Tiemeyer. I ride one personally and it's probably the best frame I've ridden. I would not suggest building a custom Tiemeyer unless you plan to start racing track."

    Agreed on the Godzilla too.

    Also, aren't those Dodici's pretty decent for the money?
    • CommentAuthorkaido_k
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011 edited
     
    Shipping a frame from Japan to the US by EMS is only a little more than a $100.
    The Panasonics are the cheapest NJS frames you can get brand new. They are decent and I have seen more than a few amateurs (non-professional keirin racers) at the track riding them because of the cost performance.
    Also the non-NJS version that accepts brakes cost more than the NJS verion.
    Other NJS frame builders will charge around $1400 up and a fair share will not build you a frame if they know you will be riding it on the street with no brakes.
    Maybe you can find a keirin racer's "spare" for cheaper but hard to find depending on the size.
    If you are going to get a used keirin frame, ask about the date stamp/when it was made and if it has been crashed and or previously street ridden. Some top tube dents are OK but make sure it has been checked out by a frame builder.
    • CommentAuthordas_pyrate
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    their order system is abbreviated to POS if that means anything to you
    • CommentAuthoronionskin
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: das_pyratetheir order system is abbreviated to POS if that means anything to you


    Having 'POS' omitted from the decal set would be my first 'custom' request - and one they are completely willing to do. Then again...riding a $2k+ bike around with POS painted on it may be good theft deterrence.

    Another thing I might add (since OP has not stated what the intended use is) would be that with a longish 40mm rake they are probably really twitchy bikes.

    Are they still building with Tange steel? To me that usually means a little whippy.
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Posted By: onionskinThen again...riding a $2k+ bike around with POS painted on it may be good theft deterrence.

    I love this idea. I think conscientious citizens should make up stickers, and slap "POS" on every expensive bike they see, as thief repellant.

 
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