velospace is about bikes and the people who ride them marketplace photos random forums














  1.  
    Free Spinaci!
    • CommentAuthorcyciumx
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010
     
    Aerobars... bikes without downtubes... the newerish 3:1 ratio... UCI can suck it.

    F*** tradition. The only people in this world steeped in tradition are the ones too afraid to be challenged. I'm not saying forget tradition. Far from it. The technical line of tech vs brute is a dumb one. Eventually the lines gets crossed, changed, skipped and redone and really in the end the preconceptions of tradition are swayed enough to allow progress, but they want to believe they weren't.

    I don't know if LeMond really got that much use out of the bars... they weren't in the best position... there were no arm rests so more muscles in his back had to be used and they weren't that narrow. Tech advancement came. Lemond utilized it and thats that. Should we start races over because someone has wheel failure?
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010
     
    Posted By: cyciumxAerobars... bikes without downtubes... the newerish 3:1 ratio... UCI can suck it.
    i'm not quite sure where you're going with this. please elaborate?
    • CommentAuthorcyciumx
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010
     
    Whenever there is progress in cheating the wind... seems the UCI get their hands to swipe it away before we even get a chance to fully realize the evolution. Same reason 'cumbents can't be used anymore. Granted they aren't everyone ones style or most people in fact, but it is what it is... another door slammed shut.

    The vision tech bars I just built up on my tri bike are illegal in time trial events sanctioned by the USI. That has in no way an effect over me and never will, but i'm sure it effected some directly and many more indirectly with similar setups.

    All those crazy looking carbon (mostly (softride anyone?)) from the late 90s were banned...cuz Euros just suck at separating themselves from tradition.
  2.  
    might be that europeans are using tradition as leverage since Americans don't have any.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010 edited
     
    How much of tradition should be pissed into the wind? Maybe get rid of that pesky "no performance enhancing drugs" restriction too. Sort of an antiquated idea. Lemond would lose his two remaining marbles.

    I wasn't suggesting that the bikes used in the Tour never change, I was suggesting that it would be cool if a bunch of retrogrouches got together and rode it the way it was rode on the bikes that were used at the time.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010
     
    We have plenty of tradition when it comes to bicycles. The whole "steel is real" revolution (or de-evolution) is being led by American framebuilders. At the same time probably half of all bicycle innovation in the past 30 years has been driven by American companies, you know stuff like BMX and mountain biking.
    • CommentAuthorcyciumx
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010
     
    anything not invented by a Euro is banned by the UCI eventually... thats not as crass and ignorant a statement as I wish it was.

    And your hyperbolic retort on drug use is a sad reaction to this sentiment.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010
     
    Personally, I would have 0 problem if the UCI froze their current standards and never allowed anything new. Nothing is stopping joe moneybags from buying some ridiculous bike to get 1% faster in his group ride. Its ridiculous when people act like the UCI controls what bike they are allowed to ride. Hey, people, you arent anywhere near pro, you probably dont even race, the UCI regs dont apply to you.

    The tour is all about who is the best rider/athlete. Technological advantages get in the way of that. If Lemond beat Fignon by 8 seconds and Lemond's equipment shaved more than 8 seconds off of his total time in the tour then Lemond didnt win as far as Im concerned. His bike beat Fignon's bike, his helmet beat Fignon's ponytail, but his legs didnt beat Fignon's legs. Who put in the stronger effort? Who rode harder? Who relied on things outside of cycling skill and strength to win? There is more than one way to cross the finish line first. I think we all know that its best to triumph based on our skill and effort, not on our wind tunnel tested helmet.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010 edited
     
    Posted By: cyciumxanything not invented by a Euro is banned by the UCI eventually... thats not as crass and ignorant a statement as I wish it was.

    And your hyperbolic retort on drug use is a sad reaction to this sentiment.


    So you think if Colnago made an obscenely light bike instead of Cannondale that it wouldn't be banned?

    You are taking me way too serious. The doping remark is more about Lemond and his wacky rantings of late than anything else.
  3.  
    don't race at all just sit on rollers and see who can spin the fastest.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
     
    That's how Goldsprints used to be before hipsters took out the skill factor.
    • CommentAuthorcyciumx
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
     
    Thats the point - as time goes on. New rules added... old styles condemned. If you are going to measure on legs alone then fuck the road and use rollers. A bike is a machine and the UCI governs PROs. As-in people who have the ability to maximize the potential of better machines. If you want the rules frozen then we can just tell the sponsorship to go away and all technological advances to stop, but then we need to have an asterisk on every single person before in any UCI sanctioned event... you know just so we all know that maybe it wasn't their ability, but their bank account that won. Give me a break and stop acting like racing @ a pro level is just about ability.

    If you want a sport to watch that relies solely on ability - then watch running... or are you going to eventually get pissed that Nike makes a better cushioned running shoe and that all runners should use sandals like the ancient Greeks?
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
     
    If you're racing at a pro level, you're already sponsored and if you're that fast, you're already on a team. Of course pro racing is all about the man behind the bike. Teams scout local/national races to pick up new riders and then they get them in training camps to get them where they need to be. Diets, riding schedules, etc. Every team does this, so it's not about money. Sure, whatever team has LA on it is going to have a lot of money coming it's way from Trek and Nike. But all the teams have money to spend on their riders. All their equipment, nutrition, and everything is being provided to these riders by their teams.
    Nobody complains about NJS rulings, but they're all over the UCI. The UCI bans items they think are either unsafe of give the rider too much of an advantage. Last year they banned radios from the pro tours because the riders were almost like robots being told when, where, and how hard to attack. They w Cinelli also knows about equipment being banned by the UCI; they made clip on drops (I think they were called speed bars?) that were outlawed, so it's not just American companies.
    And also, bike riders are one of the most under paid sport professionals for the amount of abuse their bodys go through. Contador recently signed the BIGGEST contract that a cyclist has ever seen, something like $12mil over 4 years. Doesn't Kobe make that per game?
  4.  
    Here's the thing, from my perspective:

    Lickedwicked is partially right, in that it's a human/machine hybrid that crosses the finish line. (He's not right about how much of it is bike. Lance could beat any of us while riding a little red tricycle.)

    The UCI site saysOur mission states that the UCI means to develop and promote all aspects of cycling. This is because cycling is more than just a competitive sport. It is also a leisure activity and an environmentally friendly means of transport.


    The way I look at it, they can pick one of these:

    • Make all bikes technically identical, as in Keirin
    OR
    • Encourage technologies that will both help racers win and the rest of us ride in comfort, speed, and safety.

    You can not do both, but they try. The thing is that the UCI, particularly through the Tour, sets technological trends. When they outlawed recumbents, it meant the end of the recumbent as an accepted form of bike. When they outlawed fairings, they kept us from riding in the rain. That makes it harder to commute, which makes fewer and poorer bike paths, which makes fewer people want to bike. They frowned on team and péloton riding for decades because it made the race about technique rather than raw pedaling ability, but it was just too hard to judge, so it's now the standard.

    In a mass start race, aerodynamics matter more than weight (within a certain practical range, of course) because other cyclists take up the wind for each other. We don't usually do that when we commute or go for a ride because we're all on a different schedule and our abilties are all different. That means that aerodynamic advantage is of greater value than the low weight that we're sold (which is showing to matter very little in races anyway), but technologies that increase that type of efficiency just aren't available. Attempts at introducing them are met with looks in the other direction because everyone — including the athletes — knows that the real action is within UCI-sponsored events, and particularly the Tour.

    Now, let's say you own a sporting goods company. Do you make stuff that is outlawed in sporting events? Or do you choose the other route?
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
     
    People still ride recumbants, fairings/rainguards, clip-on aero bars to drops, and lots of other stuff the UCI has banned. Cinneli still produces and sells those speed bars clip-ons. What the UCI does to control bike racing has little effect on recreational bicycle riding.
    And in mass-start races, weight has a much bigger effect than than aerodynamics. Once you're in a paceline or peloton, aerodynamics mean squat, but when you're riding a triathalon or solo tt you're the only one cutting the wind, so aerodynamics come into play. The fact remains that a 15 lbs bike is easier to pedal up a hill than a 20lb bike.
    Bikes are just getting lighter and lighter but the UCI still sets the limit at 14lbs. Most pros have to add bottle cages, computers, etc. to reach that mark. That also isn't stopping companies from trying to go lighter.
    • CommentAuthorRuffinit
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
     
    So Licked, herein lies the answer to your question if you read the whole thread. It's steeped in controversy...
  5.  
    Posted By: the rabbiPeople still ride recumbants, fairings/rainguards, clip-on aero bars to drops, and lots of other stuff the UCI has banned. Cinneli still produces and sells those speed bars clip-ons. What the UCI does to control bike racing has little effect on recreational bicycle riding.


    Those clip-ons are use in TT and Tri. Recumbents cost 5x what a diamond frame does. Fairings are used on recumbents almost exclusively, except for custom-built ones. The UCI's choice of bike form has an obvious effect on the marketplace. If it didn't, the Madone would just be a nice bike, not Lance's bike.

    Posted By: the rabbiAnd in mass-start races, weight has a much bigger effect than than aerodynamics. Once you're in a paceline or peloton, aerodynamics mean squat, but when you're riding a triathalon or solo tt you're the only one cutting the wind, so aerodynamics come into play. The fact remains that a 15 lbs bike is easier to pedal up a hill than a 20lb bike.
    Bikes are just getting lighter and lighter but the UCI still sets the limit at 14lbs. Most pros have to add bottle cages, computers, etc. to reach that mark. That also isn't stopping companies from trying to go lighter.


    So the weight advantage comes by having more water available, more accurate cadence (and therefore shifting), etc. They make up the weight with functionality. They're not just putting weights under the saddle. Coincidentally, those are things we can buy at the bike shop, made popular by UCI races.

    Technology doesn't march on its own. It's driven by a desire and backed by resources. Buddha would put his finger on his nose and point agitatedly, but given our consumption-based society, it's in the nature of what we do.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
     
    So water bottles and bike computers were made popular by the UCI? Recumbant frames cost so much because hardly anyone makes them. And that is because more people are buying upright hybrid bikes that don't put as much stress on your back as a road bike. The UCI tells bike companies what they can't do with race bikes, and only with race bikes and components. Can't race on recumbants because their manuverablilty sucks and lack of visabilty/depth perception, can't uses rev-x's because they'll chop off ligaments in a crash, can't use aerobars in a mass-start becuase manuverabily and lack of ability to brake in the aero position, etc. Bike companies can do whatever they want until the UCI says they can't do it on race bikes. Sure, people want to ride what the pros ride, but since when does that affect commuters? Weekend warriors and serious roadies are the ones who are mainly effected.

    The Madone was built around what LA wanted in a bike, so without LA, there would be no Madone.
  6.  
    greg lemond accused lance of cheating with drugs. i want to get a greg lemond bike and have lance sign it.
 
\



velospace | about, FAQ & policies | contact | blog | status | site map
© 2005-2011 velospace. All Rights Reserved.