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    • CommentAuthorhellyer
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    i have chain line problem and i would be please with some input.

    Okay so i have an All City crankset, it has a 110 spindle length. so i also bought a 110 origin 8 BB to use with it. i used to have FSA Vero crankset that has a 103mm spindle and a BB that had a 103 spindle as well.

    It looks like my cranks are sticking farther out than my sprocket. The chain is making a lot of noise and sometimes i can see the chain "snap" into place on the teeth of my cog. My chain is binding at certain angles of the cranks (cause they are usually not cocentric) because of the chain line, I believe. By pedaling with my hands I can feel that the drive is very inefficient and will sooner wear my teeth and chain. I know my chain is not too tight, there is enough slack and tautness. the only places where it might be too tight is where the chain is binding due to the chainline.

    I know its not my new crank and BB (i might be wrong, tell me) because if i have a 110 BB and 110 crank i should be fine as long installation is right (i will expand on that). It should only stick out of chainline if ummm you have a short spinder length on your crank and you are installing onto a longer spindled BB.

    I tried Sheldon's suggestion on chain tension but it barely helped.

    So I thinking that since I dont have a torque wrench, I used a regular 8mm allen to turn my crank bolts. In doing so, I think that maybe i didnt screw it in enough because i can see a little spindle left. I thought it was normal untill i considered my chain line.

    I have provided some pictures and in advance I am sorry for the cell phone low light quality but it is still worth looking at.


    http://img33.imageshack.us/i/driveq.jpg/

    Is it because my cranks can still be pushed in a little or what? please help
    • CommentAuthorLegislator
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    measure it....

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html

    if you need a different BB with more or less drive side jut, you'll need to know how much to go either way. All city provides no info about what width BB to use with their cranks, which is indicative of their quality and customer care in my opinion. If you have to install a new BB, use some assembly lube (special grease with finely ground heavy metals in it) in the BB shell and plain old grease on everything else that has threads, tighten everything down, go take the bike for a decent ride, then tighten everything again, especially your crank bolts as small amounts of movement will occur within the square tapered crankarm interface. Also, to get totally perfect chainline, sometimes you will need spacers between your drive side BB cup and your BB shell, you should be able to get them at your LBS.

    Your LBS should also be able to help you with your chainline issues.

    Good luck!
    • CommentAuthorhellyer
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    If i put spacers between my BB cup and shell then wouldnt that make my cranks stick out more than it already is?
    and all city says the spindle length is 110mm so shouldnt i use a 68x110 BB? i assume that cause it makes logical sense to me. would using my old 103 bb help? imma go measure the chain line right now brb
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009 edited
     
    A 110 bb is awfully wide for a fixed gear. I would go to a 107 at least. Until you can sort it out try putting the chainring on the inside of the spider and see if that gives you a better chainline.

    The best way is going to be to measure how far your chainline is out right now and then subtract that from 110, and get a bb that wide.
    • CommentAuthorLegislator
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    BB drive side jut is more important than total width, and measuring will always produce the right chainline, provided you are measuring correctly.

    And yes, tightening your crank fixing bolts will pull your crank farther onto your BB spindle, but only incrementally, and you run the risk of wearing out the taper on your crank arm by overdoing it.
    • CommentAuthorhellyer
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    so getting a 110 spindle length crank doesnt mean you have to get a 110 BB? like sugino 75's, they have a matching BB thats 109mm
    • CommentAuthorhellyer
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    @legislator well i used a normal allen wrench and not a torque wrench as recommended so maybe "overdoing it" would just be "doing it" but idk..... =((
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009 edited
     
    I'm not sure why the bottom bracket that comes with the crank doesn't yield the correct chainline, but if you've cranked the bolts down and it still doesn't line up then someone at All-City didn't do their homework. This is the problem with cheaping-out on parts sometimes even if they are serviceable, they may not fit right.

    Sugino 75's have the correct chainline, that's part of why they cost so much.

    What hub are you using? What is the chainline measurement?

    It should be about 42 mm.
    • CommentAuthorLegislator
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    All that I am saying is that I trust my own ability to use measuring tools far more than I do manufacturer specifications. Provided that your frame is straight and your BB shell is centered with the frame tubes, then using the method for determining chainline on sheldon brown's site should give you correct results, whether you end up with a BB that is marked 103, 105, 107, 109, 110, 111 or whatever.

    As far as tightening bolts go, using a torque wrench only increases the accuracy of your bolt tightening, since the wrench will stop applying force at a predetermined load that you set. It is next to impossible to over tighten things with a properly set and calibrated torque wrench. If you used a regular 8mm allen wrench that is roughly the same length as your crankarm and you did not add leverage to it (example: slipping a pipe over the allen wrench to increase the length of the lever) then you would have to be leaning on it very hard to damage your crankarm.
    • CommentAuthorhellyer
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    i measured it and my front chainline is about 44-45 and my rear is 42. im using a formula hub.

    i still have to try wrenching my cranks down further than it is in the pictures. I am looking at my friends bike right now and his is almost snug with the BB...i just dont have an 8mm allen =(

    well anyway i dont think its all city's fault, they have mostly good reviews and i was just pointing out same length BB and crank, price and quality have nothing much to do with my point. i couldve mentioned rd cranks which is about in the same spectrum of quality/price with my cranks.
    • CommentAuthorhellyer
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    @legislator well just look at the pictures and can i please have an opinion on whether the cranks are sticking out too much or not.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    Well part of "quality" would be machining tolerances that give the correct chainline, and quality control to make sure parts that don't never get out there. Maybe I just expect too much.
    • CommentAuthorLegislator
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2009
     
    Sounds like you need a bb with 2-3 mm less jut. I trust your ability to measure and diagnose funny noises in your drivetrain more than pictures. My earlier comments about spacers apply to your situation now, because you should put your 103mm BB back in, and since you are losing 7mm overall, assuming both your BB's are symmetrical, then your spindle will be 3.5mm shorter on each side with a 103 over a 110. If you only need it to be 2mm closer to center, theoretically you would use the 103 with a 1.5mm spacer, as the 1.5mm is taken from the 3.5mm difference between your 110 bb and your 103 bb, leaving your chainring 2mm closer to center.

    Check your chain for stiff or bent links and your chainring for bends or bent teeth. Grease everything with threads. Have fun riding. That is all.
  1.  
    Damn, where's that All-City marketing guy when you need him?

    Most important: Did you buy a JIS Origin8 BB, or an ISO Origin8 BB?

    Did you install the BB and crank yourself? If so, did you use the appropriate tools? (Minus the torque wrench.) If yes, do you know how to do it properly?

    If not, take it back to the shop that did it and have them look at it. If a friend did it, take it to a shop and stop letting your friend do things to your bike that he doesn't know how to do properly.

    I agree with SkidMark, 110 seems wide, but I've never seen an AC crank. Maybe they're funny. I really don't think you should go swapping in your old 103, if you're going to monkey with something, monkey with what you want to work in the end.

    Posted By: SkidMarkUntil you can sort it out try putting the chainring on the inside of the spider and see if that gives you a better chainline.

    Have you done this yet? For the time being it will improve things.
  2.  
    Have you measured the width of your frame's BB shell? It may not have been faced properly.
    • CommentAuthorLegislator
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009 edited
     
    All the budget stuff (all city, or8, pake, sugino rd, bulletproof, fmf) I've ever seen is JIS. Only Sugino 75, campy and vintage euro stuff is ISO, and besides, a 110 ISO bb mated with a JIS crank would make it sit further in, not out. If the frame has a wider shell or was finished poorly enough to have the bb shell be wider than 68mm you have far bigger problems.

    Bottom line is, if you still can't figure it out, take it to your local mechanic that has a good reputation and pay them for their experience and service in correcting your problem in a professional manner.
  3.  
    Origin8 rebrand in ISO, Octalink, and JIS.
    • CommentAuthorGone
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    All the budget stuff (all city, or8, pake, sugino rd, bulletproof, fmf) I've ever seen is JIS. Only Sugino 75, campy and vintage euro stuff is ISO, and besides, a 110 ISO bb mated with a JIS crank would make it sit further in, not out. If the frame has a wider shell or was finished poorly enough to have the bb shell be wider than 68mm you have far bigger problems.

    Bottom line is, if you still can't figure it out, take it to your local mechanic that has a good reputation and pay them for their experience and service in correcting your problem in a professional manner.

    Let's not forget vintage Italian frames are 70mm wide bracket shell, early 60's ITA frame are 65mm Like Cinelli, Legnano, Bianchi and so on, 68mm wide BS are English, French and Japanese frames. 109mm axle is a very common length for fix gear bike. Today's ISO BB standard is 68mm bracket shell which is old school BSC threads.
    • CommentAuthorhellyer
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    OMG THANKS GUYS FOR ALL YOUR SUGGESTIONS YOU WERE ALL VERY HELPFUL I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. SO IT TURNS OUT I JUST NEEDED TO TURN THE CRANK BOLTS A LITTLE THEN BAM!! SMOOTH AS BUTTER!
 
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