velospace is about bikes and the people who ride them marketplace photos random forums














  1.  
    I've definitely seen some Crit frames which are as steep and twitchy as track bikes, but they don't work any better than road bikes for conversion because BB height is the same as a standard racing bike. I think a conversion is the BEST place to start IF you have a frame to convert already. If you don't, it seems better to buy something intended for fixed road use. There are simply fewer issues with straight fixed rather than fixed conversion.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     
    I think SD has it right... Building a conversion can be expensive. Kilo tt is a great start....
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: wes m."Alloy concepts frames are for wheelie's and tricks"

    Rabbi might murder you in your sleep tonight.
    i got home at 5:30am from the mash race last night. the only one dying is me.
    • CommentAuthorGone
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2009
     
    And Gone, you should get to a velodrome to see people killin' it on their Pista Concepts...

    Yes I see pista concept occasionally at the velodrome but mostly carbon track bikes and vintage steel. I wonder why? Maybe you should check the UCI track world championship and see how many participant compete with a concept bike with aerospokes or any other wheels. Personally I have nothing against concept bike, there very colorful and cute but in my book they are not made for the track, there built like tanks.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    built like tanks? don't think so. and go to the uci worlds and EVERYONE will be on crabon bikes. also go to the worlds and check out how many people are riding ftp, felt tk2, etc. you won't see one at all.
  2.  
    Posted By: danzap209I think SD has it right... Building a conversion can be expensive. Kilo tt is a great start....


    A great start? It is a collection of unbranded parts on an unbranded frame. What sort of headset or BB does it use? A decent crankset (or wheel set) costs as much as the TT frame. By the time people start upgrading parts on a TT, they realize they should be on a nicer frame. Maybe this is your concept of starting out, but how many people waste money trying to save money. In principle, I agree with the OP-- buy at least "better quality"--- something that will last. But at the other exteme, NJS is ridiculous unless you have an NJS fetish or are required to use NJS parts. The mystery parts on built bikes are why I build my own from the ground up.
    • CommentAuthorGone
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    Posted By: the rabbibuilt like tanks? don't think so. and go to the uci worlds and EVERYONE will be on crabon bikes. also go to the worlds and check out how many people are riding ftp, felt tk2, etc. you won't see one at all.


    That's exactly what I said, most of the track racers at the World are on "carbon" bikes ,"look", "Koga","colnago". None are on big tubes "concept" bikes, who wants to win a championship on aluminum frames with the wrong geometry? Concepts are the BMX's of the moment, sturdy, heavy duty and colorful, most important of all, they are cheap to manufacture therefore mainstream "fixer" can afford them which is great for cycling.
  3.  
    Posted By: filtersweepBy the time people start upgrading parts on a TT, they realize they should be on a nicer frame.

    I disagree completely. For first time riders, especially those on a budget, the Kilo is by far the best choice. It doesn't make sense to save up and spend $700+ on a bike when at least 30% of the kids who try fixed end up either switching to SS, crashing the thing, or ditching the bike altogether. If they do stick with it, they start upgrading when parts wear out or when money is available. That can be done as simply and easily on a Kilo as on any other Taiwanese/American/European frame. If the rider decides to upgrade the frame down the road, they can still sell the Kilo frame or the entire bike for a fairly reasonable amount. I agree that a certain amount of money goes "unrecovered" in this scenario, but the same goes for any purchase, low, medium, or high end. As I said before: this way a rider has, no matter what ends up happening, made a smaller initial investment and has gained the experience necessary to move forward in the sport.
    In principle, I agree with the OP-- buy at least "better quality"--- something that will last.

    Do you have direct experience with the Kilo and its components? If so, please speak about it, as that kind of information is very helpful to all of us. Otherwise, what the hell do you know?
    What that really sounds like is a generalization about all generic and unbranded merchandise. So, do generic canned goods not contain the same nutrition as name brands? How about medications? Do they not work as well? Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not trying to imply that unbranded bike components are just as good as those which carry a brand. At least not always. But you are asserting that simply because the Kilo is an inexpensive frame and uses unbranded parts, it is not of quality and a waste of money. Allow me to repeat myself, if you have direct experience with this, you should share it. Because what you're saying now, unqualified, runs contrary to almost everything I have read, heard, and experienced first hand with the Kilo. Sure, the components aren't great by any means, but they work. And work well, considering they come at a $150 premium over the bare frame. The frame is being used by a lot of riders, some not as green as you seem to think. I have't heard about cracking or other quality issues with it, have you? On the contrary, the Kilo is regarded more highly than some frames which cost twice as much or more.
    The mystery parts on built bikes are why I build my own from the ground up.

    I do that too. Build my own bikes, that is. But not because I'm afraid of mystery parts. I do it because I have the means and experience necessary to do so. New riders do not. They are better off buying something that works, then learning their way into something better. Not the other way around.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    Where's Jameson_C ???
  4.  
    I've seen him on a few times since his last comment...
    • CommentAuthorquidose
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009 edited
     
    +1 sd. And by the way filtersweep, the Kilo TT uses a threadless Cane Creek headset and a Truvativ Power Spline bottom bracket. Just because BikesDirect doesn't state the brand does not mean that they are unbranded components.
    • CommentAuthorscruggle
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    Posted By: filtersweepA great start? It is a collection of unbranded parts on an unbranded frame. What sort of headset or BB does it use? A decent crankset (or wheel set) costs as much as the TT frame. By the time people start upgrading parts on a TT, they realize they should be on a nicer frame. Maybe this is your concept of starting out, but how many people waste money trying to save money.


    S_D beat me to it, but this is silly. The best thing to do to begin with is to buy a cheap, decent bike (like the Kilo TT). Once you ride it around a bit (a lot), then, and only then, will you know what you value spending money on. In fact, you shouldn't even upgrade at this step. Keep the Kilo as a beater or sell it for peanuts and get the complete bike you know you need. I've been running an old Deore crank and Surly ring forever. If someone told me right from the start to buy some Omniums or higher-end Suginos I would have wasted my money or been discouraged from even buying anything.

    I'd like to see all these people riding around on parts that won't last - the gutters must be littered with all these crankarms that have fallen off and headsets that turn to mush after a week, unbranded wheels all folded in two and frames which have spontaneously un-welded. "Oh, if only I had bought a decent set of parts and a nicer frame! I'd sue the company that produced such rotten materials, but I can't contact them seeing as the parts are unbranded...curse you, mystery parts..."

    People got some skewed perceptions of the range of quality. A Truvativ Touro crank is 'shitty' only in comparison to what a serious track sprinter might use. That doesn't mean some entry-leveler is going to obtain -any- value from buying up. The tarck demographic is almost as bad as audiophiles in terms of perceived vs. actual value.

    Posted By: Jameson_CIm of the school that you should get something of the best quality that you can afford. Seems like if I can build the best fixie i can afford now that ill be able to ride it forever.


    Except 'best' can only be determined in reference to your needs and wants, which you will learn after riding and will change anyway as you ride more or in different circumstances. There's no objective list of 'best bicycle stuff'. For some people, Phil laced to Open Pro is the best, for others, Mavic iO/Comete is the best, for others, a $150 wheelset is the best because that meets their needs completely and efficiently.
    • CommentAuthorJameson_C
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    Sorry dudes, whom ever posted that vid of that sick bastard dressed as a horse got this thread blocked at my office. I am not trying to build the best bike money can buy, but i am trying to build a quality bike that I will be able to ride for quite some time as i gain more and more experience. I didnt mean for this thread to turn into a rage/vent fest. I am thinking about dropping some coin on a bareknuckle frame or something I can be satisfied with for more than a couple months. Any other recs?
    • CommentAuthorscruggle
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    Recs for a frame? Surly Steamroller, IRO Mark V, Masi Speciale Sprint...
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2009
     
    Posted By: Gone
    Posted By: the rabbibuilt like tanks? don't think so. and go to the uci worlds and EVERYONE will be on crabon bikes. also go to the worlds and check out how many people are riding ftp, felt tk2, etc. you won't see one at all.


    That's exactly what I said, most of the track racers at the World are on "carbon" bikes ,"look", "Koga","colnago". None are on big tubes "concept" bikes, who wants to win a championship on aluminum frames with the wrong geometry? Concepts are the BMX's of the moment, sturdy, heavy duty and colorful, most important of all, they are cheap to manufacture therefore mainstream "fixer" can afford them which is great for cycling.
    wrong geometry? i don't know what velodrome you ride, but a 74 degree ht and a 75.5 degree st (for a 55) is pretty track-specific.
    and no, they aren't on "big tube" aluminum bikes, they are on bigger tube carbon bikes. and that is because if they are fast enough to be going to worlds, they are sponsored. go to a national and see how many people are on aluminum bikes.
    and as far as heavy duty, my concept in race-mode was ~15.5 lbs. i've seen carbon colnagos on the street with risers/short stems and clips/straps. are those heavy duty too?
    • CommentAuthorfilthpunx
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2009 edited
     
    "Sorry dudes, whom ever posted that vid of that sick bastard dressed as a horse got this thread blocked at my office."



    that is priceless
    • CommentAuthorGhibli
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: Gone

    Posted By: the rabbibuilt like tanks? don't think so. and go to the uci worlds and EVERYONE will be on crabon bikes. also go to the worlds and check out how many people are riding ftp, felt tk2, etc. you won't see one at all.



    That's exactly what I said, most of the track racers at the World are on "carbon" bikes ,"look", "Koga","colnago". None are on big tubes "concept" bikes, who wants to win a championship on aluminum frames with the wrong geometry? Concepts are the BMX's of the moment, sturdy, heavy duty and colorful, most important of all, they are cheap to manufacture therefore mainstream "fixer" can afford them which is great for cycling.

    Posted By: Rabbit
    wrong geometry? i don't know what velodrome you ride, but a 74 degree ht and a 75.5 degree st (for a 55) is pretty track-specific.
    and no, they aren't on "big tube" aluminum bikes, they are on bigger tube carbon bikes. and that is because if they are fast enough to be going to worlds, they are sponsored. go to a national and see how many people are on aluminum bikes.
    and as far as heavy duty, my concept in race-mode was ~15.5 lbs. i've seen carbon colnagos on the street with risers/short stems and clips/straps. are those heavy duty too?


    Comparing a carbon Colnago" to a concept alloy bike is like comparing a Fiat to a Ferrari. There are no "substitute". Concepts are to clown around on the streets, Colnago's are for the track unless your a novice and you don't know any better.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2009
     
    I am losing faith in people. You guys see dumbies tarcking around on a bike designed for track racing and now you think the bike was actually designed for tarcking... scary.
    • CommentAuthorGone
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: wes m.I am losing faith in people. You guys see dumbies tarcking around on a bike designed for track racing and now you think the bike was actually designed for tarcking... scary.


    Don't be scared Wes M, kids these day's are so sensitive! I just wanted to rattle Rabbi chain's and it worked. Personally I don't really care what newbies ride on the streets or track, I come from an era of what all of you guy's wants to ride with but can't find those bikes at an affordable price.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2009
     
    Posted By: GhibliPosted By: Gone

    Posted By: the rabbibuilt like tanks? don't think so. and go to the uci worlds and EVERYONE will be on crabon bikes. also go to the worlds and check out how many people are riding ftp, felt tk2, etc. you won't see one at all.



    That's exactly what I said, most of the track racers at the World are on "carbon" bikes ,"look", "Koga","colnago". None are on big tubes "concept" bikes, who wants to win a championship on aluminum frames with the wrong geometry? Concepts are the BMX's of the moment, sturdy, heavy duty and colorful, most important of all, they are cheap to manufacture therefore mainstream "fixer" can afford them which is great for cycling.

    Posted By: Rabbit
    wrong geometry? i don't know what velodrome you ride, but a 74 degree ht and a 75.5 degree st (for a 55) is pretty track-specific.
    and no, they aren't on "big tube" aluminum bikes, they are on bigger tube carbon bikes. and that is because if they are fast enough to be going to worlds, they are sponsored. go to a national and see how many people are on aluminum bikes.
    and as far as heavy duty, my concept in race-mode was ~15.5 lbs. i've seen carbon colnagos on the street with risers/short stems and clips/straps. are those heavy duty too?


    Comparing a carbon Colnago" to a concept alloy bike is like comparing a Fiat to a Ferrari. There are no "substitute". Concepts are to clown around on the streets, Colnago's are for the track unless your a novice and you don't know any better.
    who compared them?
 
\



velospace | about, FAQ & policies | contact | blog | status | site map
© 2005-2011 velospace. All Rights Reserved.