General: A LBS rant...

Posted By: cicadashellpete i hope you didn't get too much attitude from great lakes (feel free to pm me with damaging detail, if necessary). i go way back with the shop, i think my first schwinn bantam came from kiddie korner around 1966, and my older son has worked there for several years while not in school, so i have become one of the family. i don't go anywhere else. the owner is a totally straight-up guy, but he really doesn't want to compete with the internet. i think he takes the view that wanting to support your local shop, but expecting them to match online prices is trying to have it both ways. he would prefer you to cut out the middleman for the kinds of things that aren't in stock, and to use his shop for the things you can't get online, like a bike that fits, or repairs that last. and wheels: if you ever need a wheel built that is the place to go. i have been pounding these wheels for years commuting here, and they haven't even needed to be trued once.

that said i was a little disappointed when i went in to get tubes the other day and the shortest presta stems they had were 48 mm. it must be all those deep vs everybody's riding these days.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I’ve been going to them since they were down in there three story place near down town.
I went to Great Lakes the day after visiting Two Wheel Tango over on Jackson Ave. I am sorry to say that T.W.T. seemed to set the mood for my rant in so much as they seemed far less helpful on this matter, in my opinion. However, they were willing to mach the online price I showed them, “but only this once” while Great Lakes said flat out that they would not.
Neither Brooks dealer seemed to have one thing with Brooks stamped on it displayed or for sale. (T.W.T had another model Brooks saddle on a new bike I could buy if I bought the bike it was attached to) At no time did either Brooks dealer say “how about we get one of the models you’re looking for Sir & give you a call when it comes in so you can come take a look at it?” Had this been the case I likely would have had cash in pocket when I showed up to see it, & they would have made a sale.
As it is now, I just put on a “take off” townie saddle I picked up for 10 bucks, & it’s working just fine till I find a real replacement.

I count 7 shops I go to with my bike needs. The fact is that if they don’t make a sale when I come through the doors, I leave without spending my money in them...

Here’s another one.
Today my father-in-law called up to help him find a seat cover to go on his stationary bike. I told him to take the seat off so we could make sure if we found one that it would fit. First stop was at the hardware store in the next town where they carry the same line of Bell bike stuff that Walmart has, only at even lower prices. No luck, as they had covers for narrower seats, but not for the cruiser wide kind. I hadn’t really expected it to be that easy, but it was along the way & while I was there I resupplied my personal stock of 20” tubes. ($2.74 each as apposed to over $5.00 each at my next stop)
Next stop was the little Mom & Pop LBS & locksmith. Nice folks with a little shop that always seems to have a customer. They sell name brand bikes & accessories, even Rans recumbents too.
I tell them what we’re looking for & right away they say we don’t have anything like that. So I reach out to them and ask if there suppliers have anything that they could maybe order for us? I’m told that there two suppliers carry a lot of stuff, but just no saddle covers wider than a normal road bike seat. They then offer us a tractor sized seat with enough silicone in it to make even me look good, at a mere $60.00!
Sorry guys, not any time soon when I have seen in the past what I need in a simple cover at around $24.00. We respectfully decline there offer after they admit that it was an item they ordered by mistake & instead inquire into some cheaply priced grips for a kids bike I’ve built up for donation for any kid less fortunate these days. “Cheapest we got are these $12.00 ones”. How about a 26.2 size micro adjust seat post? Or an 18mm Park cone wrench? “No & no, but we can order the last two...”
I didn’t even go into my thing about “we can order one” with them.
We thanked them for there time and left without spending a cent. There are other LBS’s around I can hope for a better performance at should I like to visit them all & spend the time to do so. Perhaps I should call first?
Or, perhaps I’ll look online...

Posted By: suicide_doorsI think it's just Michigan. Or do you go into the shop wearing a clown suit? Or are you exposing yourself unintentionally? IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING!

Seriously. Performance bikes is the only shop I have been to that fails as often as the bike shops that stinky pete goes to. Pete, are you the only person who rides bikes in your county?

Probably not. But you could always try.

Ordered my Brooks saddle today (http://www.rei.com/product/784769) & because of REI’s return policy for members, I can return it if I don’t like it at anytime. THAT was the reason I spent my money at REI instead of at one of the IBD’s in the area.
Sorry authorized Brooks’ dealers in my area, but you had your chance when I first went shopping for a Brooks, & you both blew it…

Over the years I have frequented many a LBS. In the beginning when I did not know much, almost everyone at the LBS knew more than I and was almost always helpful. I didn't know what I wanted or what it looked like or even what the options were and my LBS was the place to go to find out. I brought my rust heap in for a tune up and the service was great. Later on I knew a little more. Sometimes the LBS had what I wanted and other times they didn't and they could special order it. The staff got to know me and would often waive the deposit and my tastes were mainstream enough that it was not a big deal if I decided not to buy an item. I tuned up my own bicycles and occasionally had a wheel built or a headset replaced at the LBS. Now I'm a freak. I trawl the internet for deals and vintage parts. I have most of the tools a bike mechanic needs and I build my own wheels. The staff at my LBS has turned around many times over and I hardly know anyone there anymore. I often know more than they do and the questions I have are mostly answered on forums online. But even still I have a special fondness for my LBS. I remember walking in there and being welcomed that first time. I remember asking a hundred idiotic questions and not buying anything. I remember spending a lot more than I needed to. I remember the grouchy overworked mechanic who wouldn't give me the time of day in the beginning, stay an extra half hour past closing to to fix my brakes so I could get home safe.
We have to admit that these days we are are a little spoiled. We know every part number and variation, prices from around the world and we want a custom build and parts even before we can tune up a bicycle. Can a 'local' shop have every part? Of course not. Can they special order it? Probably. Can they special order it so you can touch it and not buy it? Maybe, maybe not. Can they guarantee the lowest price? Probably not. But they can serve a lot of folks over the course of each day and keep many bikes running smoothly. It may be hard to believe (!) but most people are not wannabe mechanics or custom parts geeks and for them crazy folks, just like me not too long ago, there is no place like the LBS.

Posted By: dNOver the years I have frequented many a LBS. In the beginning when I did not know much, almost everyone at the LBS knew more than I and was almost always helpful. I didn't know what I wanted or what it looked like or even what the options were and my LBS was the place to go to find out. I brought my rust heap in for a tune up and the service was great. Later on I knew a little more. Sometimes the LBS had what I wanted and other times they didn't and they could special order it. The staff got to know me and would often waive the deposit and my tastes were mainstream enough that it was not a big deal if I decided not to buy an item. I tuned up my own bicycles and occasionally had a wheel built or a headset replaced at the LBS. Now I'm a freak. I trawl the internet for deals and vintage parts. I have most of the tools a bike mechanic needs and I build my own wheels. The staff at my LBS has turned around many times over and I hardly know anyone there anymore. I often know more than they do and the questions I have are mostly answered on forums online. But even still I have a special fondness for my LBS. I remember walking in there and being welcomed that first time. I remember asking a hundred idiotic questions and not buying anything. I remember spending a lot more than I needed to. I remember the grouchy overworked mechanic who wouldn't give me the time of day in the beginning, stay an extra half hour past closing to to fix my brakes so I could get home safe.
We have to admit that these days we are are a little spoiled. We know every part number and variation, prices from around the world and we want a custom build and parts even before we can tune up a bicycle. Can a 'local' shop have every part? Of course not. Can they special order it? Probably. Can they special order it so you can touch it and not buy it? Maybe, maybe not. Can they guarantee the lowest price? Probably not. But they can serve a lot of folks over the course of each day and keep many bikes running smoothly. It may be hard to believe (!) but most people are not wannabe mechanics or custom parts geeks and for them crazy folks, just like me not too long ago, there is no place like the LBS.

I totally agree DN.
I try and give all my business to the local IBS’s first because I figure they need my money far more than chain stores do. If I need a wheel built or particular parts for something like say, a bottom bracket or what not, they can’t be beat. They have a wealth of knowledge & usually share it unselfishly as well. It’s when they fail at something that I feel they should have done better at that I post it here. I’m hoping that by my doing so, that other shops will read this and strive to not make the same mistakes.

As far as Brooks products go, as I stated above, I went to two “authorized” dealers to find that they didn’t have one thing by Brooks, not even a sign or decal displayed, let alone anything in stock.
To me, that was unacceptable & worthy of public ridicule…

Posted By: dNI get the feeling that 'authorized dealer' doesn't mean much these days.

Boy, is that ever true. When I was searching for a Mavic Caliper Brake Adjuster, I went to fifteen different Mavic authorized dealers (authorized in the sense that Mavic lists them on the site). Until I got to Montano Velo, the responses to my request for an item listed in Mavic's catalog for several years were:

• I've never heard of it. Are you sure it's a Mavic thing?


• (after looking in catalog) Well, damn; I've never seen that before. Why would you even want one?


• We're Mavic dealers? I know we have a lot of Mavic stuff, but I didn't know we were official dealers.

I suspect that nobody in a shop except the owner has a complete picture of which brands they represent, anyway. Most of the shops in my area (both chains and independents) have a high percentage of 20-something employees, who aren't going to be included in the bigger business decisions, like what stock the store's going to carry. In a chain, there's likely to be staff meetings (just before calisthenics and singing the company song!) where management announces what brands the store represents. In an independent LBS, the counter kid may not know whether the store is a dealer for anything specific unless the owner directly tells him so.

I'm not clear that the dealership thing in bikes includes much from the dealer, anyway. Sometimes there's some signage (a banner, a plastic plaque), but not much else. I'd imagine that an authorized dealer gets more favorable wholesale terms, such as lower prices for stock. But it's not as if any store doesn't have the ability to order anything, at least for components. I'm guessing that the dealer agreements for full bikes are exclusive, like car dealerships. E.g., Specialized can only sell bikes to their authorized dealers, and not to the Trek authorized dealer two blocks away.

I've never worked in a shop, so I don't know the economics. I suspect it's something like an independent bookstore: The store buys inventory from the distributor at the wholesale price, and sends back unsold inventory for a refund. Out-of-stock items that have to be ordered at customer request get a deposit upfront, so the store isn't tying up so much of its own money in it. It means that each LBS has to make a choice about which items to stock, because money spent on an item that doesn't move is money that's no longer available to get something else.

In Northern California, cycling is less seasonal than in other places; riding in the winter means you'll get wet and cold, but you won't have to plow through snowdrifts or slide on black ice. Even so, the LBSes recognize a 'season'; during the October-April offseason, they don't recycle stock except on the items they know they can sell. I went into an LBS in March looking for 700x28 gumwalls; the LBS had several other sizes, but they said they weren't placing a regular order for any tires until the season started, simply because they didn't have the cash lying around.

sorry, I have a great local one here, but its in the buckeye state.... must have got unlucky... most of the "chain" and outlet stores i go to (like, for example, a specialized dealer..) dont have much if anything in stock... i typically use a small shop owned here, which would be baer wheels... they usually have what you want, as well as tri-tech multi sport, both very well stocked and cary the high end parts im looking for, as well as a slew of nice nice frames in stock. Then theres smaller ones that cannot afford that inventory, and upstart ones that seem to be the same, and the brand/chain ones just kinda suck usually..

Posted By: eaglerockWell, OK. But let's all acknowledge that the definition of "well-stocked" is "they carry the item I want to buy right now, so I don't have to wait for it". If they don't have exactly the item you want, then they're poorly-stocked by definition. Retailers stock things that lots of people buy. If you want to buy the same thing that a lot of other people already buy, you're covered; otherwise, not so much.

what the hell do you guys expect, really. are we all so spoiled by the internet.

maybe we could all band together and start an independent LBS in all major cities across the united states and europe that has access to all bicycle components ever produced. they could be stored in a secret storage facility buried under the rocky mountains. this storage center, lets call it "Warehouse X" could then be linked to all the satellite stores by means of a Willy Wonka style teleporter, allowing old velo-curmudgeons to get every part they could ever want without waiting!

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