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    • CommentAuthorstntjmpr
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2009 edited
     
    I have a fixie conversion that has recently failed, I need to build a proper wheel set.
    I ride alot and love the bike but am not familiar with brand reliability and durability.
    I would like to know what kind of thoughts people have on All-City hubs as well as Joy Tech.
    My hearts desire is a Miche set, what is the difference besides cost and brand?
  1.  
    Joytech has a bad reputation, but I've never actually met anyone who has had problems with them. FYI they are also sold rebranded by Dimension, Novatec, Kazane, etc. They are sealed bearing and I believe they have hollow axles making them slightly lighter than Formulas.

    All-City hubs are manufactured by Formula, which also makes a hubs for a billion other companies. They are also sealed bearing but have solid axles. Formula hubs are cheap but fairly well liked and very easy to maintain.
    The popular thing to do with Formula hubs is to throw Phil Wood bearings into them. Apparently they use magical unicorn mayonnaise which makes them shits fly.

    I would go with IRO's Formula branded hubs and some PW bearings once the stocks wear out. Two reasons: IRO is run by a very nice American who lives in America named Tony. IRO is known for having excellent CS and they will help you if something goes wrong without a big hassle. The other is simply that I have heard a lot more positive feedback about Formula than I have about Joytech. Simple.

    I will leave a real recommendation to someone who has actually ridden them both or has something more useful to say.
  2.  
    Posted By: suicide_doorsIRO is run by a very nice American who lives in America named Tony.

    I realize this sounds... wrong? What I mean to say is that it is immeasurably easier to deal with bike issues with an American company (IRO in particular) as opposed to email then call then RMA to Taiwan.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
     
    It doesnt sound wrong to me. My support begins with people close to me and dissipates with distance whether it be geographical or philosophical. If you can support someone who is closer to you a) geographically b) philosophically (in terms of cycling) why wouldnt you? Screw being PC, there is nothing wrong with being down with the home team.

    Back to the point... Suicide_doors is right. I dont know how much a joytech hub costs but a formula is already cheap enough for me to say that any money you would be saving by buying a joytech is not worth the peace of mind that comes with having the most vouched for entry level hub on the market.

    We could go on and on about the slight differences between hubs but it doesnt matter. The overwhelming majority has already spoken, the formula hub is THE cheap hub to have.
  3.  
    I don't care for IRO wheels. They built me a set awhile back, and they left a few spoke nipples floating around inside the rim, so when I rode, it was constantly going click,click,click,click. I also requested and paid for Deep-V rims, and they used just normal rims. I also requested machined front, and it was not. I also had some problem with the complete bike I purchased, and IRO never emailed me back, after several emails and phone messages. So, I don't really suggest their wheel building or IRO hubs.
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
     
    (sorry for being obnoxious)
    fixed gear conversion, please. Makes it sound like less of a hipster wagon.

    Use prowheelbuilder.com and you will get the best price, customer service, and selection.
  4.  
    Check around at local shops before you use the internet.
  5.  
    I run Joytech hubs on one of my bikes, and as long as you know what you're doing installation wise, you shouldn't have a problem, a proper chain whip and lockring spanner is key. Also remember to grease the threads for both cog and lockring.
    • CommentAuthorstntjmpr
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
     
    Aye.. not the hipster wagon, NOOOOOOOOOO!
    Thanks for the input...gotta go make some choices.
    • CommentAuthorjeff frane
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2009
     
    I work for All-City and I can assure you that they are not made by Formula. The manufacturer of the hub shall remain nameless by me, but I can tell you that they are butter smooth, very light (lighter than campy record) and that we spec high grade Japanese bearings, instead of the Chinese one's you find on most budget track hubs. Of course I'm biased, but in my opinion they are the best value budget hubs on the market. I have never replaced a bearing or an axle in any of my personal sets (4 pairs).
    • CommentAuthorquidose
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2009
     
    Alrighty then jeff frane.
  6.  
    Thanks for clarifying... Sort of. I stand corrected, after looking at them again, All City hubs certainly do look a lot more like the Joytech made hubs I have seen than they do Formulas. Sorry. Also, I should point out... That's not a good thing.

    You say that they are the best budget hubs on the market, but as All-City doesn't manufacture them, and you refuse to reveal who does, so I am left thinking pretty much the same thing I was originally: They're rebranded, if not Formula than Joytech or some other lower end East Asian company. So, pray tell, what makes All-City's rebranded hubs any better than the tens if not hundreds of other rebranded Taiwanese hubs on the market? Not your word as an employee, certainly. You said it yourself, you are biased. You also don't cite any experience you've had with hubs from other manufacturers. As for your specific praises:

    Smooth bearings, you say? May I ask you to do something for me? Compare the smoothness of the bearings that All-City buys to the smoothness of Formula bearings and hey, how about Phil Wood bearings. Is it like butter compared Crisco? Or how about Country Crock? What exactly is the difference? Bearings for bike hubs are cheap, even the high quality ones, so I'm pretty sure Formula's are smooth too. By the way, who uses Chinese bearings? I would sure like to know. Or did you mean Taiwanese bearings? Well, Formula does. Phil Wood sources from Japan, so you're like them, that's good. Oh, wait, they source from Taiwan as well. I'm not sure this whole bearing thing is going to save you.

    Are they lighter than Record hubs? That's wonderful, but who gives a shit? Are you trying to suggest that they are of similar quality? Come now, weight is meaningless in the $50 price range. Not to mention, I would much rather ride hubs which come highly recommended than ride hubs which cost more, weigh 50g less, but come with almost no recommendation whatsoever (positive or negative, mind you). That's what worries me: I haven't found much of anything in the way of a review or even solid opinions on All-City hubs.

    Therefore I stand by what I (and others) have said: Formula made hubs have a stellar reputation and can be had for very little money. Why would anyone bother to spend the same amount (or slightly more) on a hub with a much smaller user base? Especially one which doesn't have any discernible reputation? That seems like a gamble. Especially considering that, for $50, no one is expecting Phil Wood, Chris King, Dura Ace, Miche, Campagnolo, or Suzue. For that amount of money a rider wants something that works and will continue to work in the future without headaches. All-City hubs may do just that, but Formula hubs do that. Period.


    There's this rush to bring fixed products to the market while the trend is still on the rise. But if you're not actually making your own products, how can you possibly hope to really distinguish them from the same product with someone else's logo on it? You can't. The best you can do is pick a good OEM to brand and stand by them with good customer service and competitive prices. BikesDirect has done EXACTLY that, and with an amazing amount of success.

    I'm all for those new All-City New Sheriff hubs. They seem like a good idea, even if they are just copies of old Campy hubs which fetch far too much on eBay. No one else (to my knowledge) is making them, so they will stand out. Great. But if you want to build some respect for your regular hubs, how about you guys give them to some riders and have them write up reviews? How about have them do some 1:1 comparisons using other hubs in the same price range? Or hell, send me a pair and I'll review them. That would sell me (and most others, I would bet) a whole lot more solidly than an All-City employee admitting that they're rebranded, calling them "butter smooth" and a marginal weight difference over a far superior product. OK?
    • CommentAuthorRood
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2009
     
    Hey, uh, Shane Stock here; you should probably just get an Osobike.
  7.  
    Posted By: jeff franeI work for All-City and I can assure you that they are not made by Formula. The manufacturer of the hub shall remain nameless by me, but I can tell you that they are butter smooth, very light (lighter than campy record) and that we spec high grade Japanese bearings, instead of the Chinese one's you find on most budget track hubs. Of course I'm biased, but in my opinion they are the best value budget hubs on the market. I have never replaced a bearing or an axle in any of my personal sets (4 pairs).


    Hah, dude don't be a marketing droid here. Actually makes your brand look less impressive than it already did. Most of us know what's what. Companies like All-City and Origin8 offer cheap parts for those who can't or don't want to afford more expensive stuff. Which is fine. It's ok to be a knock-off brand but it's really not ok to pretend you're competing with legit brands like Campagnolo.

    Goofball.
    • CommentAuthorMancha150
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2009
     
    booyah achieved. That should also teach the oso bike guy never to come back again...

    "the bike is nice, simple, easy, i think it looks neat. I call it oso because I think the logo looks neat. neat neat neat."
    • CommentAuthorMyr
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2015
     
    My own experience on All-city hubs: I just received a new custom wheelset and the rear All-City hub isn't round, basically the worst hub I ever had.
    I guess I fell for the "good" marketing of All-City.
    My old ones, formula's, were machined to a much better quality standard, as can also be seen by the roughness of the threads on the All-City's.
    Thus, I would advise people to save money and to go with Formula's which are much better, and also more widely used which makes it easy to find parts.
    I will never fall again for the hype of an All-City product as far as I am concerned.
    By the way I also have a Big Block and the quality of the frame is really not as high as they claim (the welding is poorly made, the head tube badge was stick sideways, the pretensioning screws broke in the frame due to poor machining....)
    End of story.
 
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