Quantcast
velospace is about bikes and the people who ride them buy / sell photos random












General: [Sink] Leader Bike hate

Bottom of Page

1 to 50 of 95

  1. <
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. >
    • CommentAuthorFrey
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    Everyone hates on them big time, did they sleep with someones girlfriend or something?

    Don't get it. It's just a bike...
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    they dont take into consideration the size of the frame when they design the rear end of the bike. they use the same length tubes and it results in sometimes (usually on larger models) not being able to utilize most of the dropout. their welds are notoriously shitty, don't use great aluminum, etc. they just produce cheap bikes.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    The general consensus is that you can not produce a quality aero tubed frame for the price of a leader frame. A leader will get the job done but there is a reason they cost half the price of a used track pro frame. Quality control, poorly thought out geometry, etc.
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    I will be the devils advocate here and defend leader. Most people just cant understand why a frame that is conceptually the same as an ftp, bpc is half to a third of the price. I would not say they use cheap aluminum, they simply use less of it making thinner walls on their aero tubing. They may indeed have geometry problems in taller models. However, being 5'9'' seems to get me a great fit.

    Also, you need to look at the price point as well, that is the major factor in why they are able to unload 720's and 725's like candy. At near the same price point you have frames like pake,the hour, the kilo and no-name steel. Who wouldnt rather have an aero aluminum frame (unless you plan to treat your bike like a bmx). The only sales drawback is that so many people whom have never ridden a leader talk too much shit about them.
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    A cheap steal bike that looks nice > A giant rolling stealth bomber that looks like a piece of shit
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009 edited
     
    Lets not even open that can of worms.

    Posted By: LyKqiD. . Who wouldnt rather have an aero aluminum frame
    • CommentAuthorchase.
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    awesome
  9.  
    how many people who give leader shit have actually ridden one? and how many of those were the 09 versions?
    • CommentAuthordeermatt
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    a friend has one. That thing creaks and makes more noise out of the box than any other bike I've been around.
  11.  
    I would not say they use cheap aluminum, they simply use less of it making thinner walls on their aero tubing.

    That would be cheap aluminum, my friend.
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    Posted By: das_pyratehow many people who give leader shit have actually ridden one? and how many of those were the 09 versions?


    I don't care what it rides like. I am not one to ride aluminum but there are some aluminum frames that you can tell someone actually spent years developing and testing. The Spicers, BPC, and the new Fuji Track pros. These bikes are beautifully refined from years of R&D and experience. The designers over at Leader just seem to pick and choose feature and then take a giant shit onto some blueprints. There was a BMX company that did the same thing. They were called Poverty and they made the most garbage shit ever. I am sure leader is exactly the same.
    • CommentAuthorAaron C
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    Posted By: jam guyThey were called Poverty and they made the most garbage shit ever


    true that. god i cant believe you can still buy that crap.
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
     
    Posted By: Aaron C
    Posted By: jam guyThey were called Poverty and they made the most garbage shit ever


    true that. god i cant believe you can still buy that crap.


    I love that you know all the stupid shit I remember.
  15.  
    Posted By: das_pyratehow many people who give leader shit have actually ridden one? and how many of those were the 09 versions?


    *raises hand*

    shit bikes man. nothing anyone can do about it. cheap, shit frames.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    Poverty is just the Danscomp house brand, and it is essentially unbranded stuff that comes on almost every bike company's cheap completes.

    Anyways...

    Every time I see a leader built up, it is the shittiest "tarck" build ever, with the seat angled forward and bars that won't clear the top tube, basically tarck biek fails, so I refer to them as "Followers".

    I've only seen one Leader set up "right", locally this dude Kareem (he filmed "Death Pedal") has one set up for doing tricks, and he does just that with it.

    I don't I've ever seen one set up for track racing.

    The fact that the bike is so badly designed that you can't use all of the dropout really pisses me off. Ther's no excuse for that. If you are drawing by hand that's why you do auxilliary views, and if it was drawn in a CAD program there is just no excuse.
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    Posted By: SkidMarkPoverty is just the Danscomp house brand, and it is essentially unbranded stuff that comes on almost every bike company's cheap completes.


    Not so much anymore. Complete bikes are actually being made really nice these days. Most small companys use the parts right off of their product line. Way better than when I first started riding.
  18.  
    This is the lamest thread ever. The real followers are some of you guys. Following one idiot for another with ignorance bliss. I know who some of you SDfixed guys are. Posting your fake ass opinions. I have seen some of your bikes and they are not something I would want to ride around in. I race locally in San Diego on Tuesdays and I know for a fact there are many Leader bikes being raced on the track there. I know there is a team sponsored by Leader too. Plenty of them on the road. Heck the first Mash guys road on Leaders. Bet you guys never ridden one and just hate those other guys on Leader with nicer bikes than yours.

    Who here on this thread actually rides a Leader. I think only LyKqiDhas a 737 road bike.

    Hey Leader dudes rock on! I like what you do for this sport.

    Your question is what I ride. Cervello and Bianchi Pista, heck maybe get a leader later on
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    So you dont ride a leader but your positive comments are more relevant than negative comments from people who also dont ride a leader... interesting
  20.  
    Actually I have at the track. Some of my peeps ride em too. Have you or anyone else on this thread?
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    Posted By: iron jaiden
    Posted By: das_pyratehow many people who give leader shit have actually ridden one? and how many of those were the 09 versions?


    *raises hand*

    shit bikes man. nothing anyone can do about it. cheap, shit frames.


    Him and me too.
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    Posted By: VelodromeRatThis is the lamest thread ever. The real followers are some of you guys. Following one idiot for another with ignorance bliss. I know who some of you SDfixed guys are. Posting your fake ass opinions. I have seen some of your bikes and they are not something I would want to ride around in. I race locally in San Diego on Tuesdays and I know for a fact there are many Leader bikes being raced on the track there. I know there is a team sponsored by Leader too. Plenty of them on the road. Heck the first Mash guys road on Leaders. Bet you guys never ridden one and just hate those other guys on Leader with nicer bikes than yours.

    Who here on this thread actually rides a Leader. I think only LyKqiDhas a 737 road bike.

    Hey Leader dudes rock on! I like what you do for this sport.

    Your question is what I ride. Cervello and Bianchi Pista, heck maybe get a leader later on


    Spot on with your criticism here man. You obviously have not listened to what anyone has said in this thread. The geometry is so fucked you cannot even utilize the whole dropout! I do not care what you or your friends have or have not ridden. So what you ride a Cervello and a Pista. Is that supposed to be some kid of pre-requisite to knowing anything about bicycles at all? I would call a leader a great bike for a beginner who is just getting started racing track, but do not come on here and act like they are some kind of bike that is way under priced and is the greatest thing of all time. Don't just join this forum to voice your shitty unthoughtful "I heard this from someone else" bullshit. A lot of people on this forum are very well versed and have a lot of useful bicycle knowledge. Keep it real on your pista/cervello combo of knowledge beyond anyones realm of understanding.
  23.  
    I read every word written and that is why I joined this forum. Post some facts man. Well versed in what? What type of ride you will do tonight.

    Have a happy 4th
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    I am gonna do the type of ride that involves me drinking a lot of beer.
  25.  
    Posted By: VelodromeRatThis is the lamest thread ever. The real followers are some of you guys. Following one idiot for another with ignorance bliss. I know who some of you SDfixed guys are. Posting your fake ass opinions. I have seen some of your bikes and they are not something I would want to ride around in. I race locally in San Diego on Tuesdays and I know for a fact there are many Leader bikes being raced on the track there. I know there is a team sponsored by Leader too. Plenty of them on the road. Heck the first Mash guys road on Leaders. Bet you guys never ridden one and just hate those other guys on Leader with nicer bikes than yours.

    Who here on this thread actually rides a Leader. I think only LyKqiDhas a 737 road bike.

    Hey Leader dudes rock on! I like what you do for this sport.

    Your question is what I ride. Cervello and Bianchi Pista, heck maybe get a leader later on


    Like I said earlier I've ridden one. They're cheap frames man. Plain and simple. Nothing you want to believe is going to change that.
    I'm not saying you don't absolutely have the right to ride a cheap frame and be happy with it. Hell you've got a Pista, you know the drill. Just saying they're not really well made and since they seem to be designed for track use that just seems kinda silly.
    Leader has a new "trick frame" out and I'm quite sure that thing will work just fine for doing keo's on your local basketball court, but if you wanna race you should maybe look at something a tad nicer.

    Anyways, welcome to the forums. I'm sure you'll be fun for about a week :)
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009 edited
     
    Not sure who you are VelodromeRat but feel free to talk to me at Sunday Funday, and discuss why someone who used to work for Haro Bikes DESIGN Department might have an opinion about a bike's geometry and why it might be shit.

    You saying the some of the MASH guys rode Leaders just underlines Kareem's choice of bike, and just proves that those with shitty setups are indeed Followers.

    If there are people who are using a Leader track bike on the track that's fine with me. I'm not sure if they might be compromising with their gearing or chainstay length, but hey if it works for them it's cool, although I think if the wheel is hitting the seat tube and the axle isn't slammed in the dropout slot, then some "designer" didn't do their homework, and production signed off on it too. Don't know that I would buy a product from a company with such a "good enough" attitude.

    At least the Pista has decent proven track geometry, and is not some slack-angled fixed gear road bike like so many of the other entry-level completes.

    The only bike that would be better than my KHS Aerotrack for ME would be one that I design and build for myself, taking my fit and personal preference for ridiculously short chainstays into consideration.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    Posted By: SkidMarkAt least the Pista has decent proven track geometry, and is not some slack-angled fixed gear road bike like so many of the other entry-level completes.
    ...not anymore. this year the pistas have a slacker headtube angle. it's sad.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    That is a shame, that and the tarck bars. And how the fuck is that bike worth $819?
    • CommentAuthorcloud
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     
    ^because it says bianchi, my only explanation.
  30.  
    I only drive over to San Diego on Tuesdays. PM me and tell me how to find you. If you do indeed race at the track SkidMark, then you probobly already got your ass kicked by someone on a Leader. Some of those guys riding for big city team ride very fast and already won many events. I saw a couble leader's there on the track with expensive custom paint jobs too. There is this guy riding on one with the Union Jack painted on it.

    Again I know what I see and if you actually work for Haro more power too you. But I disagree with you about the geometry. The angles and top tube on the Leader are about the same as my pista.

    Yes I am going to see what Leader does with those new steel bikes. I am a steel guy and that is the main reason I am not riding a Leader on the track.

    Again only post facts and no more inuendo heresay jacked up opinions.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    the geometry is fact. i've seen many people riding a 23c tire with the axle in the back of the dropout... and the tire is nearly touching the seattube. it's a pretty well known fact that leaders do this.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    I don't race and I never claimed that I race.

    I worked for Haro Bikes back in 1990 or so, when Bob Haro still owned the company. I redesigned the Extreme to accept front suspension, and designed the Extreme AL from scratch. I also designed their first 24" cruiser. The drawings I did were used by Linn Kastan to create prototypes for Interbike, and for overseas production. I still have many of the blueprints.

    I said nothing about the the ht/st angles or the top tube length. My beef is that when you design a rear triangle the rear tire should be about 1mm off the seat tube or the chainstay bridge with the wheel all the way forward in the dropouts. It's something I took into consideration on the Haro 24" and it is bike design 101.

    Companies like Vanilla Bicycles take chainstay length and dropout slot travel into consideration to the point that they calculate how long the chainstay needs to be to use a specific chainwheel/cog combination and have it fall in the middle of the dropout slot. And yes that means that even the chain length is being taken into consideration.

    Bicycle frame geometry is a big can of worms to open, and assure you I think about EVERY aspect of it.

    I know this has turned into a bit of a penis swordfight, but if you want to get ahold of me my email is choppermark(at)hotmail(dot)com.
  33.  
    Some years ago my dad picked up for me an old school Haro made in 79. I loved that bike.

    Anyway. I did some checking and only one frame from last year had that dropout issue. No other Leader frame has that problem from what I can tell. Anyway I am sure Leader is not as large as Haro today. I do agree they should explain why they had that problem on that older model.

    Now it is time for me to go out and do some afternoon riding. Super nice summer day today.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    there are at least two in vegas right now that are 09s and have the same problem... how did you "check"?
  35.  
    I am no expert, so don't hate if I say somethin dumb.

    Is there a difference in T6061 aluminum (quality)? how can you tell, other than by assumptions due to the price difference? my 720TR frame (which claims it is double butted T6061 Al on the drive side chain stay) at less than 4 pounds is light enough for my needs and seems sturdy enough after 750+ miles of testing (no cracks or creaks). Granted I don't really abuse it like most fixed gear enthusiast do. the two tricks i do are track stands at short stop lights and backwards circles. no curb jumping, no wheelies, no pot holes, no skids (got brakes) and it seems to work just as good as my 80's steel frame bike that I sold (only it's a bit lighter).

    I am not a fixie "free styler", and I'm not a track racer by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just a commuter

    I don't understand what the big deal is with the seat tube clearance / crap geometry. Just add another link in the chain, there is plenty of room (at least on the '08 720TR). Yeah it's stupid that you can't put a 700 wheel all the in, but honestly, how gives? just move your wheel out a qtr of an inch and ride on.
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    you shouldn't have to compromise anything on your bike to adapt to the frame. the frame should be designed that when in the back of the dropout, the gap between the frame and the tire should be around 1mm or so like skidmark said. the problem is that in the middle of the dropout, the wheel still touches with a standard 23c tire. that means you are limited to certain gear ratios that will allow a certain chain length. not to mention tire sizes.
  37.  
    Again, I'm not denying it's a stupid design. I'm saying I don't care. If it's super cheap, and that's the worst thing you can say about it (or that's the thing people seem to focus on most), I will happily adapt the rest of my bike to make it work for the cheap ass frame. btw I've used three gear ratios thus far and they've all worked fine.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    Ok, now we have pretty much summed it up. Its a alright frame FOR THE PRICE. You get what you pay for, theres nothing wrong with that, just call it what it is... a budget aero tubed frame aimed at the "fixie" trend.
    • CommentAuthorAlM
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    I fucking hate leader, people always make fun of me by asking if my bike is a leader.


    It's a rush hour pro, BITCH.
  40.  
    Crank Pedlar are you sure you ride a 720TR and not the 721TR?

    Leader dudes, rock on! I like your bikes. I may get your new 722TS. But one BF favor, Fix your web site. So boring.
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: the rabbiyou shouldn't have to compromise anything on your bike to adapt to the frame. the frame should be designed that when in the back of the dropout, the gap between the frame and the tire should be around 1mm or so like skidmark said. the problem is that in the middle of the dropout, the wheel still touches with a standard 23c tire. that means you are limited to certain gear ratios that will allow a certain chain length. not to mention tire sizes.

    The issue you are addressing was a design fault in the 08 model. People who have recently bought their frames from leader dont compromise anything. I have not seen any 09's with the clearance issue.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009 edited
     
    I went out riding today too. I went to Sunday Funday. Oh, and look what I saw there

    Photobucket
    Is that a Leader set up all tarck?

    Photobucket
    Wow look how far back the wheel is in the dropout, about an inch!

    Photobucket
    And look, the tire is within a quarter inch of the seat tube! I bet if I tried to slam the wheel all the way forward it would hit the seat tube.

    Sorry, but there is no excuse for this on any bike production or custom.

    And yes you are right, not all Leaders are like that, observe "La Douche"

    Photobucket

    Axle almost all the way forward and plenty of room for the tire in the seat tube cutout

    Photobucket
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    And (Bob) Haro didn't start making frames until 1983.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
     
    My mind is totally blown right now.
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2009 edited
     
    Dude had to use a Shadow Conspiracy half-link chain to get it to work, too.
    • CommentAuthorAaron C
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009
     
    oh, oh no you di'dn't skidmark. aw snap bois.
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009
     
    haha I guess if I played videogames I could say p'wned?
    • CommentAuthorjerereremy
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009 edited
     
    I've had an '07 735tr since feb, and while the rear hub/axle can fit all the way (leaving good rear tire clearance with either 23c or 25c).

    that said, i'm still not a fan of this bike. it creaks and feels like it could "give" at any moment, and that's just from riding along the levee here. By the end of the week, I'll have built a replacement and put that sum'bitch up for sale.
  49.  
    Posted By: SkidMarkI went out riding today too. I went to Sunday Funday. Oh, and look what I saw there

    Photobucket
    Is that a Leader set up all tarck?

    Photobucket
    Wow look how far back the wheel is in the dropout, about an inch!

    Jesus Christ. Look at that white bike. That is REALLY sad, the rear wheel issue. I would be pissed. He could made take out one half link or add one more tooth to his drive

    Photobucket
    And look, the tire is within a quarter inch of the seat tube! I bet if I tried to slam the wheel all the way forward it would hit the seat tube.

    Sorry, but there is no excuse for this on any bike production or custom.

    And yes you are right, not all Leaders are like that, observe "La Douche"

    Photobucket

    Axle almost all the way forward and plenty of room for the tire in the seat tube cutout

    Photobucket
    • CommentAuthorG star
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009
     
    leaders are for young spray painters and true track bike savers
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2009
     
    I feel like so many people have joined this forum to justify their shitty decisions in buying a leader.

1 to 50 of 95

  1. <
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. >
 


about, FAQ & policies | contact | blog | status | resources | site map | graphic design
© 2005-2009 velospace. All Rights Reserved.