General: H plus Son

Hey guys, who knows about these? i was interested in getting some H plus Son Formation Face rims and then just read a review from an Orange County forum saying that they are sketchy and bend when riding? does anyone have any more info???
thanks
Jon

they definitely do not bend when riding. just like anything light they are somewhat flexible. like if you pinch the rim with your fingers towards the middle they flex a minimal amount and you have to press pretty hard to make them flex, but flex a bit none-the-less. they are deeper, and they are for sure lighter than the deep v's. not much but they are lighter. I like the fact that they are deeper.

i read of them failing during whip skids.

anyhow, quoted from Tsuzing:

"hi guys. This is Tzusing from h plus son. i wanted to set it straight that

1. deep vs are in fact not the 530 grams like they advertise on their catalog. which is why people are saying my rims are lighter.

2. My rims are not lighter than deep vs. they are really about the same weight as a deep v.

3. My rims are WELDED joint. not sleeved or pinned like velocity. And if you don't already know, welded joint is way better than the other two.

4. I use G609 aluminium alloy. 30 percent higher MPA than 6061 on most rims."

AND more:




"I wouldn't say my rim is stronger than a deep v if you are using it for tricking. But my rims will probably stay true for longer. This has to do with the fact that my side walls are really thin and that 42 mm is a lot longer of a side wall than 30mm.
if you are doing bunny hops off 5 stairs you might cause the side walls to bend.
But as a normal urban riding rim my rims are strong.

Now what i can't figure out is why someone would go off spouting about my rims like he knows something about them. When he has obviously never see one in person. Nor does he know anything about the material or manufacturing process behind it.

i have a group buy of 10 rims at 70 USD. E-mail me at hplusson@gmail.com "

Posted By: sixspeedi read of them failing during whip skids.

anyhow, quoted from Tsuzing:

"hi guys. This is Tzusing from h plus son. i wanted to set it straight that

1. deep vs are in fact not the 530 grams like they advertise on their catalog. which is why people are saying my rims are lighter.

2. My rims are not lighter than deep vs. they are really about the same weight as a deep v.

3. My rims are WELDED joint. not sleeved or pinned like velocity. And if you don't already know, welded joint is way better than the other two.

4. I use G609 aluminium alloy. 30 percent higher MPA than 6061 on most rims."

AND more:




"I wouldn't say my rim is stronger than a deep v if you are using it for tricking. But my rims will probably stay true for longer. This has to do with the fact that my side walls are really thin and that 42 mm is a lot longer of a side wall than 30mm.
if you are doing bunny hops off 5 stairs you might cause the side walls to bend.
But as a normal urban riding rim my rims are strong.

Now what i can't figure out is why someone would go off spouting about my rims like he knows something about them. When he has obviously never see one in person. Nor does he know anything about the material or manufacturing process behind it.

i have a group buy of 10 rims at 70 USD. E-mail me at hplusson@gmail.com "

How can a Rim fail while whip skidding im pretty much lost

h plus sons look better in my opinion for sure. and seem just as strong. and obviously velocity doesnt make any money off their rims, so just keep buying deep v's, since everyone has them. i would rather pay extra for a better looking rim, that is just as strong, just as light and not what everyone else has. I have deep v's and an H plus Son. so i like both. and i would gladly pay 100+ for a rim i liked. maybe "alexisfaster" needs to get a big boy job.

man you are awesome...

...and you are right, bikes are hipster trash.

you are a bunch of pussies!
who the fuck cares what rims you got
or how much they are,
don't be a bitch!

my overall point is that looks shouldnt be everything. a bike is a purpose built performance machine. performance, comfort, reliability, and value should all come before looks (not nessicarily in that order). personalization is important but the other things matter more. cycling is a way of life for me, if it was for you too you'd understand. i cant wait for all the "trendy" people to fall off the band wagon so prices can go back down and quality can go back up, seriously, i remember like 2 years ago you could get used keirin frames for like 500 bucks . in the mean time keep throwin your money away.

you're still missing the point, but i dont know think i can make it any clearer

man two years ago you could get a lotta track bike items for less... that's what I've been preaching about: don't give in the hype.
I just don't really care so much anymore because I know in another two years most of those dumb ass lil kids be riding daddys brand new car and that's why
they won't bother the cycle movement anymore... the ones that stay should also grow up and see there is more than just name brands and hype

I only care about performance fuck looks, names and hype

cause im sure neither of you have ever bought anything out of looks. even bike related? really? let's be realistic.

STOP RUINING EVERY THREAD. Go ride a bike or something. So you just come on velospace every few hours and post replies to some other douche who is just posting replies to your pointless posts? Stop wasting everyones time.

All you guys really know how to stay on topic. I also take issue with all this look v. function stuff but that'll be a separate thread innit? The other day I was at a shop having a wheelset laced and they had these h+sons, so I had a look. So here is the real scoop for you, since I have actually handled them in person. Now I did not ride on them mind you. But so firstly, they really caught my eye. The nmsw version esp is real slick, with a deeper dish than v's and. Its pretty sharp looking. Then I picked it up. They are lighter than deep v's, thats for sure. But, you might ask, how can they cut all that weight and still have more surface area for the dish? Well, joe six-pack, that's cause its flimsy stuff. Its seriously tin foil thin. Its not eyeleted, of course, but no big deal, the deep v's hold up w/o. But looking closer I could see tiny bits of metal lip curled over on some spoke holes here and there, that at a glance looked like blatant bad construction. Never seen that before. Even dings from storage shouldnt do that. Still, they make you want them, and I would have loved to give them a ride just for fun. Plus its not much of a review w/o actually testing the rim out, is it? But then again, at 120 a pop I just as soon say, forget this garbage and go in for a pair of mavic ceramics for the same price!!!

pro:
they look nice, like hed's and such.
markedly lighter than deep v's.

con:
looking like a top-notch rim doesn't make it one.
"markedly lighter than deep v's" isn't saying much, theyre still heavy.
dont take this out on a windy day- you already learned that from the v's.
thin walled and flimsy - I dont know wether to ride them or wrap my sandwich in them.
why the crap are they so expensive? I can get some campy atlantas for about the same $.

my 2 cents: why pay competition-grade $$ for hipster-grade baloney?

Tracksloth....I had to think about that name for a while. Haha!

Anyhow, I fail to see what all the fuss is about with these top-end parts. I ride forty plus miles per day on stock Kilo TT wheels. Granted, the front is not the straightest thing on the planet, but it takes a beating. And I do realize that Deep Vs may be stronger. But do I need them? No. Does anyone who simply rides their bike for transportation need anything more? No. My wheels don't say Mavic, or Errorsok3, or whatever, but they roll like any others. When they shit the bed, am I going to get nice wheels? Probably not, because it's absurd to spend a bunch of money on something that you put through all that shit on a day to day basis. Besides, no one can read the name on your wheels when they are rolling, can they?

It will do the trick, but whats the long term cost of it. My Mavic Ellipse wheels (which i rave about constantly) were an expensive initial investment, but they roll crazy smooth, and for the pounding I give them, I've NEVER had to true them. Go get a crap wheelset and it will roll, but not as smooth AND if you need to get them trued fairly regularly and don't know how to do it yourself (chances are if you have a $100 wheelset, you don't) you could spend $150 a year on truing and spokes. 2 years, 1 greasing, and 3000+ miles later (including a 1' brick wall at 20mph, god-knows-how-many 3-4 stairs, curbs, wheelies, etc) that $400 price tag looks more than reasonable. The smooth factor isn't really known until you've ridden nice nice hubs. a 12" TV is great until you watch a 40" HD, then it's hard to go back. Phil's are even smoother, and I despise the fact I've ridden on them, because the bar has been raised to that level.

dang just came in here to see a review

i've been bitching about these alot and today i was justified. my roommate was skidding through a turn and his rear wheel tacoed. yes, it folded pretty much in half like a taco. just got back from the e.r., had had to get 8 stitches in his elbow and 12 or so in has chin. he's a trooper but he's pretty shook about these rims. i'm sure he'll be putting the front one up for sale on here real soon.

obviously if his wheel tacoed it was built up perfectly. im sure it was just the rim that made it taco.

you're right, it wasnt built properly but that was through no fault of the person who built them. the spoke holes were improperly drilled as is the case with alot of the h + sons. the guy who built them warned my friend of this and said they may have a weak spot or two. he usually guarantees all the wheels he builds for life but he refused to guarantee those wheels, it was kind of a ride at your own risk situation, but its still shitty

if you get the facts all wrong.

at least spell my name right.

it's TZU SING


I'v said it many times and i guess i'll say it again. To thin the sidewall is an extra process. It actually cost more money to make a rim with a thinner sidewall.
These rims are overbuilt for normal roadie use already. They have reported that it is a very strong and stiff rim. The original goal was to make a good budget race wheel. Not a tricking wheel for freestyle kids.
I will come out with a heavier version next year for this market.

Someone said that a deep profile wheel was for strength? If you want strength, you should consider a 29inch mountain bike rim and not a deep section road rim. I'm sure a 2000 dollar 50mm high zipp rim is many times weaker than a low profile mountain bike rim. And yes...for the 100000th time. The sidewall of a high profile carbon rim is going to flex way more than my rims.

And about the pricing. I think they are pretty cheap if you consider the other options. you can get the much heavier shamals or ventos. But also keep in mind, they retailed for a lot more than HplusSon. Like the campy pista wheel set right now at 38 mm high. They cost around 800 USD a wheel set.

I have made a rim higher, lighter and cheaper than even the shamal. And people still have something to bitch about. i don't know.

Begging your pardons Mr. Tzu but Sing us a different tune, why don't you. Would you like me to show you how fast I can take these gems of yours and turn them to chop suey? Just by riding around the block, mind you. Nevermind, I think I'll just treat myself to a $250 bag of potato chips.

Wait... isn't the dude saying over and over that tricks are out of spec for his rim?

What I have learned from this thread:

1: Someone makes a rim that's like a Deep-V but with thinner sidewalls.
2: It's a budget racing rim.
3: When used at the edge of the envelope, is fails, just like the designer said it would.
4: That makes some people inordinately angry.

If it costs X dollars to purchase a product that doesn't do what you want to do, isn't X too much, no matter how little it is?

Indeed. There was some mention of tricks. Ok. Plus, what about city riding? Curb hopping, whip skidding, wiping out. And you know, I am not too fond of my rim bursting on a simple skid. Whatever the case may be as far as usage, a rim should be, if not bombproof, marginally reliable. Is a race any less demanding on a rim than your commute? So don't mark it up and call it cheap, Sing, is what I say. I call it a paper plate, cause that's what it amounts to. Even your shitty Deep V can take a daily beating without so much as going out of true, so think about that.

i heard that some guy broke them while riding
is that true
r they durable?

Posted By: K3NNYhttp://www.zlogblog.com/2008/11/im-craving.html#links

thats hella crazy
im kinda scared now