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General: 90's Cannondale Track?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2009
     
    I have had an eye out for awhile around the lbs and co-ops but have had no luck, scouring the interweb seems to yield the same results as well... Any suggestions?
    • CommentAuthorOtto Rax
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2009
     
    light a candle, and get ready to shell out some bucks. the people that have them know what they have, and their popularity has made them quite the commodity. co-ops are 99.9999999% out of the question. ebay or craigs, and again, be ready to shell out the butt-hole for them unecessarily
  3.  
    Yeah, I'd love to own one of them some day, but I've settled on the fact that I'll probably never have one. It's not quite as sexy, but I'm pretty into the early 00's major taylors with full dura ace. They weigh practically nothing stock. I do see them go through here and ever often enough though, but they're not that cheap
  4.  
    Not a factory Cannondale track bike but... Not a lot of difference between the road version and the track version...

    I found a practically free deal on the bike. It was chained to the rack outside of a bike shop in pitiful condition. I asked about it not expecting it to be for sale. I was told that I wouldn't want it, the bike needed shifting components, wheels, and a whole lot of other things. No problem, I said, most of that stuff will be coming off of the bike anyway. After a puzzled look a price was set, I couldn't even haggle -- SOLD!

    To convert this bike to a fixed gear I had to do some creative reconstruction of the dropouts but it wasn't too hard. One of my co-workers walked by as I had the frame on the band saw and said, dude, thats a Cannondale. I still have all of the mounting holes to fill, but I am going to wait for the next paint job to do that.

    Good luck finding one... If you can't, but you can find a competent fab person and an old road version it can be done.

    Josh




    CRASHING SUCKS!
  5.  
    Hey, I'd be interested to see some close up pictures of what you did to the dropouts. I have one of the old mountain bikes that I thought about messing around with like that, but didn't wanna mess it up.
    • CommentAuthorjam guy
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2009
     
    terrible frames. Also known as the crack and fails because of the shitty way the joints were put together.
    • CommentAuthorf.iction
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2009
     
    Hey, I'd also be very interested in seeing what you did to those dropouts to convert them. Did you machine new dropouts from aluminum plate and then tig weld them in? or is this a mod to the existing dropouts to make them rear-facing?
    • CommentAuthorOtto Rax
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2009
     
    ive had several cannondales, and have yet to crack anything on it. don't believe everything you read, they are not terrible frames.
  10.  
    yeah, I've also got several of them, mostly old ones, and they're all holding up perfectly fine. Cannondale was making everything in aluminum in the early 80's when everything else was steel, so obviously something that's been ridden hard for that long isn't going to last as long as steel, not to mention they get extra credit for actually making those frames in the US, instead of having kids in Taiwan weld them.

    The bottom of the headtube on my commuter m800 is even slightly uneven from being ridden so hard for so long, so if the welds hold up long enough to outlast the shape of the headtube, they must be perfectly fine.

    The giant tubes are also an acquired taste, so a lot of people just hate them.
  11.  
    I don't want to jinx myself but my bike has held up to some abuse and it is a fun bike to ride. Right now it is my main commuter and I ride 4-5 days a week to work. My one complaint is those damn bearings in the bottom bracket, I will be upgrading to a sealed unit very soon.

    For those of you interested in the dropout mod -- I have been meaning to post this over on my site and now I have a reason to stop slacking. I don't have all the pictures I would've liked to post with this mod but nonetheless, check it out...
    Velocake dropout mod

    Josh
  12.  
    Hey, I have a friend who used to have that same thing done to an old cannondale frame, I think he bought it like that so he didn't know much about it. How much adjustment do you get with the new dropouts? I know clearance is already pretty tight with the wheel in the vertical dropouts on the road frame I used to have, I'm not sure how much farther the wheel would've even gone up. The mountain bike I use has slicks on it, and it still wouldn't have a ton of room to mess it.

    I'd like to learn to weld someday, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, so I'll probably hold off on this one until I do, but that'll give me plenty of time to find an old frame or two to do it on when I do. I know there's a couple different kinds of welding( TIG, MIG, ARC) although I don't know much about any. Do you think TIG is the best option for random bike project like that?
    • CommentAuthorf.iction
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2009
     
    Awesome mod on those dropouts, from the closeup, it looks like you did a ridiculously clean job.

    Do you know what the alloy of aluminum you added to the frame was? Was it the same as the frame?

    Also, when you were welding, was your weld mostly adding to the existing weld, or did you actually weld to the chain and seatstays themselves? It looks like from your ghettorigged photoshop image that you mostly welded extra material to the existing drop outs, rather than welding on new dropout to the frame itself. Did you do anything to heatsink the chainstays and seatstays to prevent them from annealing?

    A lot of questions, mostly rhetorical I suppose, because I doubt I'll be using the exact same frame as yours anyway. I've been wanting to try this for a while, and I feel like me tig skills are on the right level to do it, just trying to get as much procedural info as possible.


    And to upthemaiden, yeah TIG welding is pretty much the only way bike frames are welded. Of course, all lugged steel bikes are brazed, which uses an Oxy-Fuel torch to melt silver or brass. If you're looking to learn how to weld, I suggest learning Oxy-Fuel welding, as it is cheap and easily accessible, and the skills you learn from oxy-fuel welding are almost identical the skills you need to excel at TIG welding.

    MIG and arc welding are both powerful ways to weld but they really have no place in cycling unless you're building a shitty double-decker bike or something like that.
    • CommentAuthorupthemaiden
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2009 edited
     
    when you say oxy-fuel welding, is there a type of welding that you can do with the same torch you would braze with, or is brazing what you meant by "oxy-fuel welding"? I plan to learn how to braze someday, it'd be nice to be able to weld with the same torch. What is the TIG welding process like? is it actually a flame? what kind of welding did I do in 9th grade where you clamped this stick onto the handle and it just welded whenever it touched the metal?
  15.  
    To start, didn't mean to hijack this thread. We can start another if there continues to be interest in frame mods...

    The tire clearance is about the same as the stock dropout, at least for my converted frame. The bike had 700x23 tires when I got it and I changed to a 700x28 shortly thereafter. I was worried about clearance with the larger tires but even those fit, it is close though. The axle is not really shifted upward. Where I made the cut actually lined up with the axle notch that was already there. I have about an inch of adjustment, which seems to be more than enough.

    I have no idea what kind of aluminum I used, I grabbed it out of the scrap pile at work. I wasn't too concerned with the grade, it was placed on the bottom side of the dropout, which made me think that it may not be subjected to the same load as the upper portion.

    The piece I added was welded to the bottom of the existing dropout as well as the chainstay. I will say that the chainstay tube is very thin walled and I burned through while trying to tack the bottom piece in place. The good thing about aluminum and TIG welding is that you can add material or fillet the welds, which is what cannondale does with these frames anyway. I am not a welder by trade, I just happen to work in a field that has welders, so I am not an expert. But just to reiterate, TIG is the only way to go when dealing with aluminum. If you would like to use a torch then a brazed lugged frame would be the way to go. Welded steel would also be TIG welded. Leave torch welding (not brazing) and MIG for other projects. Stick arc welding also has its place but it is not in bicycles. Now, who knows what kind of welder we use to glue those carbon fiber frames together?
    • CommentAuthorf.iction
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2009
     
    upthemaiden-
    oxy-fuel welding and brazing use the same setup - essentially, a torch handle, a tank of oxygen, a tank of fuel (commonly acetylene), and tubes to connect them all together. If you use this torch to get your steel very hot, you can weld it, but if you keep your temperatures a lot lower, and use flux, and some brass rod, you can braze two pieces of steel together. This isn't as strong as welding, but because it doesn't get as hot, it does not cause the steel to melt and deform - a plus when you are using very thin walled bicycle tubes.

    With aluminum (and, many modern steel alloy) bicycle tubes, they can be directly welded with a TIG welder, which uses an electrical arc to melt the metal. The benefit of TIG welding is that it is much more controlled and powerful, so you can weld your tubes quickly enough that heat doesn't transfer away from the weld joint and melt or soften where you aren't trying to weld.

    That being said, TIG welding metal, particularly aluminum, that is as thin as a bicycle tube is ridiculously difficult.

    So while you can definitely weld with the same torch you would use to braze with, and you could weld things like bike racks, fenders, etc, with that torch, if you try to actually weld any part of the frame with a torch, the results will be messy.


    And the welding you did in the 9th grade was a type of arc welding known as stick welding.
    • CommentAuthorAlM
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2009
     
    Hplusson is replicating the cannondale track, they're supposed to produce it sometime in the fall.
    • CommentAuthorf.iction
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2009
     
    hah and it will probably weigh as much as a schwinn varsity.
    • CommentAuthorOtto Rax
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2009
     
    replicating it isn't the same thing. Skechers replicates Diesels, but it isn't the same (for teh record, i dont nor have i ever owned or wore either brand)
  20.  
    Atleast a remake will probably drive down the price of the real frames, as the people who don't care as much will just settle for the h+son version, which is fine by me
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2009
     
    Posted By: f.ictionhah and it will probably weigh as much as a schwinn varsity.
    um. prob not.
  22.  
    That's a hot bike you made there, Josh.
  23.  
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2009
     
    Posted By: iridebicyclehttp://www.fixedjunkie.com/?mode=cate&cbid=329043&csid=0&sort=p
    just a thought
    and $1500?
  25.  
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2009
     
    2k and 3k... Thats more then I paid for my honda.
    • CommentAuthorNash
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2009
     
    just watch ebay and craigslist like a hawk....every once in a while one will pop up and you can get some for a steal of a deal
  28.  
    I dunno about getting them on the cheap man. For some reason people think Cannondale track frames are the end all-be all of the track frame world. They're nice for sure but you gotta consider that you're buying an aluminum frame. Lighter? Yes. Rigid as fuck and reeeeaaaaally uncomfortable riding over gnarled city streets? Yes. For the amount you'd end up paying for just the frame you could easily get a sick ass steel frame, hell even a brand new Alien or something, quality components, and enough money leftover to get that hair did and find you a girl who ain't got a beer belly.
    • CommentAuthorupthemaiden
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2009 edited
     
    Yeah I don't understand what the fuss is about. I myself would love one of those frames, but my basement is stocked with nothing but cannondales, and the ones that get ridden the most are the old ones, so it kinda fits into the category. I would still like one someday, but I'll be more than happy to wait for the hype to end so I can get one cheaper. At this point I feel like it'd actually be cheaper to get one of their 2000-2001 Major Taylor track bikes that come with full Dura Ace and weigh something stupid like 13lbs off the shelf.
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2009
     
    Posted By: iron jaidenI dunno about getting them on the cheap man. For some reason people think Cannondale track frames are the end all-be all of the track frame world. They're nice for sure but you gotta consider that you're buying an aluminum frame. Lighter? Yes. Rigid as fuck and reeeeaaaaally uncomfortable riding over gnarled city streets? Yes. For the amount you'd end up paying for just the frame you could easily get a sick ass steel frame, hell even a brand new Alien or something, quality components, and enough money leftover to get that hair did and find you a girl who ain't got a beer belly.


    I have looked at alien, and they build exceptional steel frames. I love can. tracks, but they are not worth what most people are asking.
  31.  
    Posted By: LyKqiD

    I have looked at alien, and they build exceptional steel frames. I love can. tracks, but they are not worth what most people are asking.


    Most bike stuff isn't. Unfortunately it's a sport that a lot of people get into when they just have money they're looking to spend. Unless you actually race with a team, and are expected to keep up, you can spend a ton of money on a bike and some spandex(or a chrome bag and pumas) and look like you're semi legit.
  32.  
    This makes me miss my Jet Jaguar.
    • CommentAuthorctb90
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2009 edited
     
    I have a blue 90's Cannondale track bike with all original components, wheels, etc. that measures 51cm center-to-center and am willing to sell.

    Edited to add:
    I am the original owner. It doesn't have many miles in it as I was racing on the track at the time only as cross-training for the road and put only one partial season on it. It is in very good condition, despite a few scratches.
    • CommentAuthormrymeski
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2009
     
    It amazes me how quick people are to comment on the durability and ride quality of cannondale track frames without ever having owned one. I've had two, neither one ever cracked, and both are totally comfortable to ride on the street thanks to the steel fork.

    Some of the best frames made imho
  35.  
    i don't understand why cannondale hasn't started producing them again. they would make so much $$$.
  36.  
    Posted By: das_pyratei don't understand why cannondale hasn't started producing them again. they would make so much $$$.


    My thoughts exactly, or more companies like Alien making inexpensive, but more "track like" frames. It must also be said that old Cannondales have a really interesting ride quality, and the Tracks in particular are really pretty. Never ridden one, and if one came around at a good price, how could I say no :D
  37.  
    yeah i would love one, but the prices are wayyy too inflated. it may be a nice frame but buying one for 800+ that's been used thoroughly and is at least 16 years old? no thank you. :/
    • CommentAuthorthe rabbi
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2009
     
    you gotta pay if you wanna play.
  39.  
    You just gotta keep your eyes out on mis-categorized eBay listings and CL desperation sales and whatnot. I've seen a couple go for $400 or so since the beginning of the year. I'd probably snag one but I ride a GTB so I've got all the aluminum track bike I need for a while.
    Interesting rides for sure. I can't recommend a carbon fork on an AL track bike highly enough though if you're gonna ride it on the road. Cushions quite a bit.
    • CommentAuthorcloud
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2009
     
    Posted By: das_pyratei don't understand why cannondale hasn't started producing them again. they would make so much $$$.


    h plus son is soon to release its Alu track frame that mimics the cann. track's geo and steel fork. it looks good from what i've seen. this could be the push cannondale needs to get back on the C1000. perhaps just like the recent offerings of new turbo saddles, people starting making copies and selle italia woke up and starting dishing them back out.
  41.  
    Cannondale seems to be without a rudder these days. They were bold and innovative, but something went off the rails. Their stock is literally worth ยข2 a share right now. They're not owned by cyclists, but by an investment company. They were doing something no one else was doing, with their fat aluminum frames and modern branding, not to mention the geometry that folks talk about.

    Now, everyone does the fat tubes in aluminum and they pour on the swooshy logo paint, making their bikes indistinguishable from others. I'd love to see them figuring out what they do best and doing that again.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2009
     
    They could do what they did before but the problem is that it isnt new or unique anymore. Cannondale had a few good ideas but everyone else caught on. Adapt or die.

    I dont know whats up with their management but I doubt that the people who are there now are the same people who were driving force of the innovation back in the day. If its still the same folks they must be one hit wonders.
  43.  
    No, they're all gone. Their bikes are still nice, but I don't think anyone's really taking the company wheel and driving it anywhere.
    • CommentAuthorgreg
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2009
     
    Lefty forks are still their thing, at least until the patent expires
  45.  
    Posted By: gregLefty forks are still their thing, at least until the patent expires


    And then when the patent expires, no one else will make them anyhow XD
    • CommentAuthorananimals
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2009
     
    Posted By: RideEveryday
    Posted By: gregLefty forks are still their thing, at least until the patent expires


    And then when the patent expires, no one else will make them anyhow XD


    soooooo true.
  47.  
    Yeah. The fork requires a specialized hub and frame. It's all about compatibility. We've learned that from the Web.
    • CommentAuthorctb90
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2009
     

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