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General: Vintage Dura Ace Oval Seatpost

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    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2009
     
    I have a seatpost that takes a rubber seal. Where can I find one? Dura Ace... It's on my "Mystery Bike"
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2009
     
    Posted By: danzap209I have a seatpost that takes a rubber seal. Where can I find one? Dura Ace... It's on my "Mystery Bike"

    I'm guessing that 'oval' in this case is what's usually called 'aero', a seatpost style common in the '80s. Shimano and Campagnolo both made aero-ish seatposts in that period.

    I'm throwing that theory up because the photos of your mystery frame are too small to see the seatpost clearly.

    I've got both Campy and Shimano aero seatposts, and I've never seen/heard of a rubber seal. What's it supposed to do? Could we get a photo to see where this rubber seal is supposed to fit? And/or, if you have links describing it, could you post them?
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    How do I post pics on the forum?
  4.  
    THIS IS HOW!

    <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/danzapata209/?action=view&current=ara-DZ.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/danzapata209/ara-DZ.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009 edited
     
    Here's a pic.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    [IMG]http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/danzapata209/dzseatpost.jpg[/IMG]
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    dzseatpost
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009 edited
     

    The picture sites (PhotoBucket, f'rex, which I also use for this stuff) tend to give you more code than you actually need. Vanilla, the message board software that runs velospace's forums, doesn't seem to understand the extra info in the basic tag; so you have to strip out the noise to make it work properly.

    In this case:

    [img src="http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/danzapata209/dzseatpost.jpg" border="0" alt="dzseatpost"]

    This is the full IMG SRC tag you used. Assuming the location of the image [http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/danzapata209/dzseatpost.jpg] is accurate, you should only need the IMG SRC tag. I've italicized the border/alt variables that PhotoBucket stuck in; I think they should be taken out.

    For visibility purposes, all the left/right square brackets should be replaced by left/right angle brackets, since the angle brackets tell the server that there's HTML to be parsed.

    And the critical thing, the thing without which none of this will work, is to check the "Format comments as Html" radio button under the comments window.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    Freakin' THANK YOU !!!!
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    one more please...
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009 edited
     
    ...
    • CommentAuthorgreg
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009 edited
     
    ...
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    Thank you... I not good at this stuff. I need to learn
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    So what do you think? Is this a impossible part to find?
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    Maybe I can fab one out of silicone?
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: danzap209[IMG SRC]http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/danzapata209/ara-DZ.jpg[/IMG]

    Now that I've given you some pointers, you should try this yourself.

    So now that I see the picture, I have a much better idea of your problem. I think you've got a frame that's designed for a particular frame-specific seatpost, and you don't have that seatpost. You also seem to have the seatpost too deep in the seat tube; normally, with a Shimano/Campagnolo aero post, the clamping section is a regular cylinder, with the aero section only happening halfway up the post, above the end of the seat tube.

    In the second photo, which greg has generously posted, you'll note that the seat tube is round (at least from the photo angle), and the clamped section of the seat post is also round. What I notice is that the seatpost is substantially narrower than the seat tube, which is wrongwrongwrong. You can get (or fabricate) metal shims to goose a narrower seatpost up to fit a larger seat tube, but a seatpost that fits the seat tube correctly is the preferred implementation.

    The rubber flange in this photo...I don't know why the hell it's there, except possibly as a jury-rig to keep water out of a fixture that's already kludged together. Where did you find this photo?

    My advice: Pull the seatpost up and clamp it on the cylindrical section. Does it fit all the way around?

    If it does fit, then you'll need a shorter seatpost, so that you clamp the seatpost on the cylindrical section. You'll probably have to give up the aero thing to do so; very few cylinder-to- short aero section posts were ever made. Mostly by Campy, which did aero posts that were marked 130mm (really about 160mm, including the clamp). I've been looking for a 27.2 Campy aero post for a Bianchi, and they're all in Europe, and they all cost $200. Frustrating though it may be, that's life; get yerself a regular cylindrical seatpost - Thomson recommended.

    If the cylindrical section doesn't fit, then you need a special weirdo seatpost that's not cylindrical. Your most likely source (considering that you don't know the frame manufacturer) will be a shop that does a lot of triathlon/time trial stuff, since they seem to be the ones that use those frames/posts most. I don't know if there's a shop like that in Stockton or Sacramento, but there are a lot on the other side of the Altamont Pass in the Bay Area. Danville seems to be a big bike center, but I've never been to their shops; I'll bet there's a tri place there. La Dolce Velo in San Jose is a tri-centric shop.

    If you absolutely insist on using an oddball rubber flange, I would suggest whittling something yourself out of hard rubber. Perhaps find a plumbing flange at a hardware store that fits the seatpost, and work it down until it fits the seat tube. But 'normal' for a seatpost/seat tube join means a seatpost that just barely fits the tube (lubricated with the appropriate ooze for the materials), and then clamped tight enough to prevent slippage without breaking anything. Rubber is not involved in this anywhere.

    Do you have any additional information about this seal, other than this one photo?
  19.  
    Uhm...

  20.  
    I mean, that looks like two different bikes. Are you suggesting that your bike should have such a seal? Where did you find the second image?
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    Her's where I found it... http://www.43bikes.com/araya.html
    But my frame is different, it has fillet brazing, teardop tubing, the seatpost has notches drilled into it. I can't put a round post in there...
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    I was told when I bought it, this is the seatpost that comes with the frame... don't lose it
  23.  
    I have seen some frames with aero seat tubes, but never one which was so narrow. What I have seen are more wide at the front and narrow at the back like this old Motobecane:


    Obviously that's not what you have there.

    I know Columbus had a tube set called Air back in the early 80's which had an aero seat tube option in addition to the standard cylinder seat tube. I do not, however, know what shape the tube was. I do know that most frames made from said tubing were outfitted with Dura Ace AX or 600 AX components. I don't know if either the DA or 600 post was such a shape.

    I agree with Eaglerock, go to a TT shop. Aero tubing was used in time trial bikes almost exclusively, they should be able to give you something. If they can't, you can ride the bike the way it is, right?
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    Just got back form a ride... I enjoyed the tight geometry :)
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2009
     
    My seatpost is a Dura Ace AX
  26.  
    Hey, Greg, this plugin may alleviate some of this hand-wringing.
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2009 edited
     
    Before even looking for a the seat post seal, find out whether or not your frame was meant to have one. It seems the 82 Araya has more room to fit that kind of a seal, whereas your frame has some pretty tight tolerances.

    It will be near impossible to find out if it came with a seal because it has no badges or emblems and no serial number. You well know it isnt an SR because of the campy dropouts, and I would agree with others in saying it is probably a smaller manufacturer because of the lack of a serial number.

    Considering this, I would tend to believe that this part which seems frame specific, would not have come from a small manufacturer.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2009
     
    So do think I have the right seatpost? I think I do....
    • CommentAuthorLyKqiD
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2009
     
    I believe you have the correct seat post, I cant think of many others with the exception of the Deore DX (and that was discontinued awhile ago) that would even fit into that early aero tubing. Of which I have never seen a Deore DX with that kind of seal.

    The fact that your seat post has such a tight fit would lend me to think it is the correct one. Now, did that frame come with the part you are looking for (the seal)? I cant say with 100% certainty, but I would say no.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2009
     
    Thanks for all the help !!! I've decided to put gears on it... What do think about a 650c front end?
    • CommentAuthorAaron C
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2009
     
    i think you def. have the correct post. the seat "clamp" is just a glorified set screw, which is basically working by pushing the front half of the post into the seat tube, creating a small void behind the post (on top of the most extreme section of the "teardrop" which accommodates the set screw.)

    looks sweet, seems like bad design. a seat tube is not where you want water entering the frame, bam lets add a wonky rubber seal to remedy a bad design that we really want to use because it looks cool
  32.  
    Dear Dan, here's an eBay auction you might want to check out. Maybe ask the seller about his seatpost seal?
    SHA BAM
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2009
     
    That's it !!! Do you think I may have a Condor frame?
  34.  
    Well, a bunch of manufacturers made frames using Columbus Air, so it would be difficult to tell. I would just ask the guy selling the bike for some information.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2009
     
    I did, I'm waiting for a response. It does look like it could be a Condor... same seatpost clamp setup, a wishbone rear.
  36.  
    Yeah, it certainly could be. Try emailing Condor.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2009
     
    Good idea...
    • CommentAuthorAaron C
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2009
     
    at the same time that frame (which looks amazing) has a very distinctive bb cutout.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2009
     
    I'll post a pic of my BB set up...
    • CommentAuthordiable
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2009 edited
     
    I have a similar frame with the tear dropped shaped tubing which is Columbus Air I also have a matching seat post to go with it. I am not sure who the framebuilder was though.

    http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h112/diable666/?action=view¤t=Bike1.jpg

    http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h112/diable666/?action=view¤t=Bike.jpg

    http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h112/diable666/?action=view¤t=Bike2.jpg
    • CommentAuthordiable
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2009
     
    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2563/3958215347_b6aff82a83.jpg
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009
     
    Who is the maker of your seat post?
    • CommentAuthordiable
    • CommentTime6 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: danzap209Who is the maker of your seat post?

    It is made by Columbus and has Columbus stamped on the seat post, same as this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/bishopbikes/3958989404/ I spoke to Hilary Stone and he says they are as rare as hen's teeth and he has only seen one on sale in the last 15 years. I have emailed Columbus and am waiting to hear back from them asI am looking to replace mine if I don't get anywhere then I will polish my seat post up and shim it.

    I forgot to add that these seat posts seem to have come as a set with the tubing.
    • CommentAuthordanzap209
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    I haven't seen a Columbus aero seatpost for sale... big bucks?
    • CommentAuthordiable
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Someone told me that one went for about £90 a few years ago. I think you have more chance of finding rocking horse sh!t from what I hear. I have emailed Columbus to see if they still have any as I would like to replace my one as it is pitted and discoloured.
    • CommentAuthordiable
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Shimano Dura Ace AX seatpost.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Shimano-Dura-Ace-AX-aero-seatpost-w-gasket_W0QQitemZ270486206918QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efa3bf9c6#ht_4980wt_1167
    • CommentAuthordiable
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Also check out http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2007/11/columbus-steel-tubing-for-frame.html

    way way down the page they have this.........


    Columbus AIR: the following was found on the internet:

    "Columbus Air was the Italian manufacturer's initial attempt at an aerodynamic tubeset. It dates from the early 1980's. The intial version used a teardrop shaped down tube, seat tube and seat stays in conjunction with an oval top tube and chain stays, and a round head tube. Later versions had teardrop shaped chain stays. The tubeset was designed primarily for time trials and aerodymanic efficiency and therefore it is not practical to compare it directly to other round, Columbus tubesets. However, based on tube thickness, the seat stays were equivalent to KL and the chainstays, seat tube and top tube were equivalent to SL, while the down tube was equivalent to SP. Due to the teardrop shapes the resulting frames weighed more than SL, but had less strength. The rear triangles in particular had a reputation for being whippy, due to the thin seat stays. However, this was considered acceptable given the intended TT use and aerodynamic advantages.

    Of particular note, the seat tube came in two versions. One with a standard round top end, to accept a normal seat post and another which carried the teardrop section right to the top, requiring a teardrop section seatpost.

    If you have the latter, you may have some difficulty finding a seatpost, unless it is being provided with the frame.Regarding componentry, most frames built with this tubing were outfitted with Shimano Dura Ace AX, or less likely, 600AX. Campagnolo did not have an aero group at the time and the Italian farme builders did not want to miss out on the aero bandwagon, in the event it turned out to be the latest craze."

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