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How-To/Mechanics: Stubborn old freewheel removal

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorsfbee
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2009 edited
     
    I'm having a hell of a time trying to remove to remove the freewheel from an older wheel set that came into my possession (super record to wolber profil 18, sachs six speed). I took it to a LBS a few weeks back and tried to remove it using the top tube of a busted mountain bike frame as a cheater bar, but only ended up snapping the freewheel tool without budging the freewheel itself. Since then I've been trying from time to time at home, using PB blaster in between tries to try and loosen things up a bit... but still no luck. At home I've been using just a park freewheel removal tool with a 12 inch adjustable wrench.

    I'm looking for some voodoo I can perform to get this sucker off, before I blast the bastard to hell with c-4 ... any suggestions?
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2009
     
    So is it a cassette or a freewheel?
    • CommentAuthorsfbee
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2009
     
    oops... corrected the post. I didn't realize the differences between the two, but am aware of them now :)
  4.  
    Wow. I bought a bike several years ago for a ridiculously low price which had a seized bottom bracket and headset. Took 45 minutes, a two foot piece of steel tubing, a wrench, and two shop kids to remove the BB. I never bothered to remove the cassette...

    Anyway, just to be sure, this is a cassette hub, not a threaded freewheel, right? Older threaded freewheels need a different tool than the more modern cassette lockrings need.
    I have used a soak in Liquid Wrench with some success. It's basically the same as PB Blaster, I think, but you might try just in case.
    Otherwise, if you want to save the wheel and can't get the goddamn thing off, I believe you can use a pin spanner on the bearing cone and remove the entire freewheel. This would render the freewheel useless, and I don't know how easy it would be to obtain a replacement.
    • CommentAuthorwes m.
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2009
     
    Sometimes heating it up with a torch can help. The outside heats up faster, stuff expands when it gets hot, you get the idea Im sure. I dont know what kind of heat penetration you could get on a cassette though. I'm also not sure if you want a torch anywhere near spokes or a hub for that matter.
  7.  
    Posted By: sfbeeoops... corrected the post.

    So which Park removal tool are you using? Are you sure it is the correct one? And, uh, you are turning counter-clockwise, right?
    • CommentAuthorsfbee
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2009
     
    Finding a replacement shouldn't be too difficult, since quite a few are up on ebay at the moment. I'm hoping I can get this thing off without destroying it, but am open to doing that if needed. My right arm was starting to spasm after a while of trying to get that thing off earlier this evening
    • CommentAuthorSkidMark
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2009
     
    I usually clamp the freewheel tool in a vise and use the wheel as leverage.

    PB Blaster works better than Liquid Wrench, and I've used Liquid Wrench for years.

    Since we're still not clear as to whether it's a freewheel cluster or a freehub cassette, I will say that a freewheel is right-hand thread, and the lockring on a freehub is left-hand thread.
    • CommentAuthorsfbee
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2009
     
    Posted By: suicide_doors
    So which Park removal tool are you using? Are you sure it is the correct one? And, uh, you are turning counter-clockwise, right?


    I'm using this tool, which I bought from the shop after snapping one of their tools trying to get it off with the help of one their guys, and yea I'm turning it counter-clockwise
  11.  
    Ok, so you're definitely working with a threaded freewheel, and yes, should be going counter-clockwise. I would suggest taking it to another shop and trying to find someone who has gray hair and no more than ten teeth to take a look at it. Those geezers sometimes surprise you with magical cures.

    Otherwise, I don't know what else to tell you. If you are not able to remove it whole, the pin spanner should get the job done. I think. I would have to see the piece to say for certain.
    • CommentAuthoreaglerock
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2009 edited
     
    Just because this hasn't been mentioned yet: The holy writ from Sheldon.

    Pay particular attention to this passage:

    Before trying to remove a freewheel using a 2 prong tool, it is very important to secure the tool against the freewheel, using either the axle nut, or the quick release skewer (with the springs left off.)

    Note, once you have broken the threads free, you need to loosen the skewer or axle nut to allow the freewheel to unscrew further.

    Newer freewheels use pullers with multiple splines (grooves) that give a much more positive engagement than the older 2 prong design. This type doesn't require any special measures to secure it.

    Emphasis mine, because I call bullshit on it...as does every geezer wrench I've ever met. The universal recommendation 'round here is: Use the QR/axle nuts to fit the freewheel socket close into the freewheel, whether the FW is 2/4 prong or splined. Don't fit it tight; the freewheel has to have somewhere to go as it loosens. But if you're not holding the socket in position with the QR/axle nut, it's just going to disengage from the FW, and you may hit yourself in the face with the chainwhip/Crescent wrench/pipe/monstrous tool of choice.

    I'm about 70%/30% freewheel/cassette, so I've run into what I think is your situation several times. Odds are, whoever put that old Sachs FW on 25 years ago didn't grease the hub threads before he put it on, the big dummy. Years and years of pedaling has just threaded the FW tighter. I'd plan on taking several days to approach the problem:

    1) Soak the FW down with Liquid Wrench/PB Blaster for a few days; hit it whenever it looks dry. Really saturate the area, to flush out whatever rust/sediment you can. After a few days, then try the wrench thing again.

    2) If that fails, then introducing some lubricant may help. I'd try a light lube from the back side of the freewheel; you're trying to get oil into gaps between the thread of the hub and the thread of the freewheel. Again, give it a few days; hit it when it looks dry. Then try wrenching.

    A given in this is that the LW/PBB is going to break down both the oil in the freewheel and the grease in the hub. But I am assuming that you're going to repack the bearings in the hub, and that the FW (if salvageable) will need a thorough cleaning/relubing anyway. Normally, I soak all mein freewheelen in Simple Green for a few days, scrub them shiny, wipe them down, then start filling the mechanisms up with Phil's Tenacious Oil. Regina and Sachs FWs will get to the point of near-silence with this treatment.
    • CommentAuthorfilthpunx
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2009
     
    Posted By: wes m.Sometimes heating it up with a torch can help. The outside heats up faster, stuff expands when it gets hot, you get the idea Im sure. I dont know what kind of heat penetration you could get on a cassette though. I'm also not sure if you want a torch anywhere near spokes or a hub for that matter.

    fuck yeah i do that shit all the time and it works great.just get that fucker super hot and itll pop right off
    • CommentAuthorRuffinit
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2009
     
    +1 to Eaglerock and Skidmark
    Clamp the removal tool in a bench-mounted vise and use the wheel to unscrew from the freewheel. You'll be amazed at how a really stubborn freewheel will then come undone.. Make sure the tool is secured to the wheel as Eaglerock states.

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